A new acquisition

[sensei215]

Greetings,

 

I just recently acquired this tsuba and wanted to know if anyone had any information on the maker. I assume its 19th century I am translating it to read Hisanori saku. Its quite large 3.5 inches. I scanned the tsuba and it doesn't show the patina well. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I intend to but several pieces I own up for discussion and hopefully mutual education.

 

Tim S

hisanori1a.pdf

hisanori1b.pdf

[Brian]

Tim,

Try and upload the pics as a jpeg instead of a .pdf.

A lot of folks won't bother opening a pdf just to view a pic.

 

Brian

[sensei215]

Thanks to Brian's help I will try again to get the photos right. I'm going to need plenty of practice.

 

 

Tim S

[sensei215]

And now the the back. I thought I did this. Hmmmmm!! Well I'll keep trying.

 

 

Tim S

[John A Stuart]

I quite like the depiction of the horse on this tsuba done in kebori. There were a few Hisanori some contemporaneous with each other, but, I do not have enough information on their technique to differentiate them. I think you can safely say it isn't by the Omori school artist Chizuka Hisanori. John

[sensei215]

Thanks for the info John. The photos does not do this justice

I'm still trying to upload the other side. Can this signiture be read any other way? I have seen this with fittings but not with swords.I am basically a blade collector and have always bought that way. I have several well mounted pieces but with me the blade was always first. I hope to pos some soon if I can start to get a few decent photos.

 

Tim S

[John A Stuart]

久則 can be read as Kyusoku, Tsunenobu, or Kyunori as well as Hisanori, but, I'm fairly certain would be Hisanori in this case. If it had a kao it would have been easier to identify. John

[Ted Tenold]

Tim,

 

I'm a horse themed fittings fan and have collected them for quite a while. It's a very interesting piece and rendered unlike any I've ever seen of this subject by any maker. That said, I can't help but feel this tsuba is contrived or at best, a contemporary work by a modern maker. Katakiri bori renderings generally reflect a more simplistic (or should I say minimalistic) execution as they were inspired by sumi-e (ink brushed pictures) with artists such as the Yokoya group being some of the most celebrated. This work looks more like it was inspired by a modern Western (even Remington-esque) image. Also the placement seems rather odd with the image leaving a lot more blank space in the lower opposing region with not even simple texturing to balance the composition. The signature also looks a bit rudementary compared to the complexity of the image details and I'd like to think that a maker with those kinds of skills could better sign his name. The surface patina (or lack thereof) also leaves me scratching my head. Perhaps it was cleaned at some point, but it is dull and a bit lifeless.

 

I do hope I'm wrong, and it's not my intention to criticize as much as it is to confess what my intuitions say. However, I wouldn't be surprised if little about this maker could be found based on my observations, which are just that; my observations and opinions.

[John A Stuart]

Here is a similarly themed kozuka by Jochin. You may see the difference in how the horses are rendered. John

[Ford Hallam]

ok...here I go again....being the odd guy out

 

I think Ted has done a perfect job of describing the work in aesthetic terms but I must differ with his opinion as to it being modern.

 

I wish it was made by someone alive today....because then I'd find him and beg for permission to study with him.

 

I feel this is an exceptional piece of work. It's classic kata-kira as developed by the Otsuki school. By this I mean the bold cuts are clear and express the form very well and there are areas of detail where the kata-kiri very subtly blends into pure modelling and sculpting. The shaping of the mimi is very sensitively done...co-incidentally I'm doing one quite similar right now so I'm probably partial. The composition is very original, not without president though, in terms of the unconventional placement. This sort of work convinces me it's by a real artist.

 

I'd love to see some sharper images though.

 

I've seen the man's work before and I know that mei. I think I know where to find some more examples of his work but I need my first cuppa and a bacon sarnie. I'll see what I can dig up.

 

Exceptional tsuba thanks for sharing.

[John A Stuart]

I liked it. Not odd alone. John

[Ford Hallam]

sorry John...suppose I quite like being the odd guy . It is a great piece, isn't it?

[docliss]

While readily bowing to Ford’s expertise regarding the katakiri techniques displayed by this tsuba, I must express my personal reservations about its overall quality. The placement of the image within the confines of the plate has compromised the depiction of the fore-legs and of the hind quarters, both of which give the impression of having been ‘squeezed’ into the available space. Is this a copy of the third horse from the left in the second Jōchin image posted by John, I wonder.

 

I await, with interest, further postings by Ford on this thread, but tend in the meantime to favour labelling this as a modern repro.

 

John L.

[Ted Tenold]

Re-reading my post, I thought that I should clarify that I also like it very much, and re-emphasize the skill in which the image was rendered. Having never seen anything comparable in period work, my mental reference then shifts me to classify it stylistically as I described. That said, I would love to see other examples of this artists work so I could add them to my christmas list. :lol: So please do post some if you find them Ford.

[drbvac]

I like it as well and having a horse crazy equine surgeon daughter definitely influences my tastes!

 

Doc, after looking at it for a while I am not so sure the fore and hind legs are squeezed in as much as the perception that the horse is running away from the viewer as you can see the bottoms of the hoofs. That would make it leaving the viewer at 45 degrees or so and then the horse turned the head back and it lets the artist do it on profile.

 

Pretty nice - can't wait to see more or others and an attribution would be nice but for sure don't ask me !

[sensei215]

I am enjoying the commentary. The back of the tsuba is very interesting. The tsuba has a signed box. I just received a call from the person I got it from and this may be a daisho. A big part of the problem is my poor attempts at photographing the tsuba. I actually have several dozen items I have collected over the years that I wanted to put up for discussion. Several I know quite a bit about others not so much but they all have a bit of quality and I would like putting them up for discussion. I would appreciate any help or suggestions on how to get a clear photo. I am using a Nikon Coolpix L15. I am having trouble with both the focus and light reflecting from the items. I was impressed with the photos of the fuchi I saw this morning and would love to knew how these were done.

 

Tim S

[sensei215]

I read Dr Barrett's comments and he is correct. The horse is shown with its head turned looking back. The other side is the back of the horse gallopping away showing the back of his head and his posterior with his tail in the air. This ctually has a very rich looking patina.

 

 

Tim S

[reinhard]

This work looks more like it was inspired by a modern Western (even Remington-esque) image.

 

I agree with Ted.

 

Western expectations (size, design, proportions, colour etc.) combined with traditional Japanese skills and craftsmanship automatically lead to Hama-Mono: things made for export during Meiji-period. Everything about this tsuba is pointing this way. It looks like a well executed piece of work, but somehow far from Japanese sense of aesthetics.

 

Just one question: What are the measurements of this tsuba (horizontal and vertical diameter)?

 

reinhard

[sensei215]

Hi Reinhard,

Its actually 9.1 cm or 3 9/16 inchs round. About 4/10 of a cm thick. I hope this helps still trying to get better pictures.

 

 

Tim S

[Ford Hallam]

Tim,

 

it may be helpful to see the inscription on the box.

 

It's funny, I don't see any overt Western influence in the rendering of this horse. For one, the way all 4 legs are arranged so as to appear as though it's almost bouncing is very un-Western but quite common in Chinese and Japanese paintings of horses. The actual composition and arrangement on the plate is, I think, quite masterful, especially if you consider how it would look when mounted on a sword.

 

I'm really interested to see the pair to this now....and shame on you Reinhard , for suggesting this is Hama-mono

 

I haven't found any other work yet but I'll keep looking

[Ford Hallam]

I found this one on the MFA site. It's apparently by the Omori artist of that name, Chizuka Hisanori.

 

The technique in this example is obviously quite different but the actual treatment of the mimi is similar I feel. The nakago ana and the kozuka hitsu seem very similar to me also.

 

 

 

 

Ginza Choshuya has a pair of menuki by the same artist. Here's a link to them.

This is the mei.

[John A Stuart]

It is interesting in that I had eliminated Chikuza Hisanori as the possible artist because any examples I could find did not use the technique of kebori/ katakiribori. The similarity you mentioned may show a familial line, but, the index is vague on that point, in fact the other Hisanori have minimal information available. I again lament there is no kao to relieve us of this problem. I hope better pictures as they are forthcoming help with appreciating the minimalist style and the use of blank space to focus on the drawing. John

[Ford Hallam]

John,

 

I have to agree with you. The Omori connection doesn't immediately make one think of kata-kiri does it?

 

I do think though, that as this is such an unusual composition and the fact that this style of kata-kiri is so vigorously expressive we're perhaps looking at something atypical of whoever did it.

[reinhard]

It's funny, I don't see any overt Western influence in the rendering of this horse.

....and shame on you Reinhard , for suggesting this is Hama-mono

 

Well, I do. Even more so when looking at the reverse. Design looks rather "modern" and there is hardly anything I can connote with works predating Bakumatsu or Meiji-period.

 

The size of the plate is somewhat oversized which is a typical feature of Hama-Mono. This is not necessarily a bad thing, for some tsuba made for export were crafted by highly skillful artists. Lacking raw materials or the like, Japan depended mainly on traditional craftsmanship when it was entering global markets during later 19th century. When the days of the samurai ended, some of the artists and craftsmen found a new market, but the new customers were different. Instead of samurai and local merchants, Westerners had to buy their products. Guess what happened. This particular tsuba fits in there perfectly to me. Skillfully executed it is, but quite far from any traditional sense of aesthetics.

 

reinhard

[ottou812]

I think this artist was more skillful than the one that created this.

[Ford Hallam]

Design looks rather "modern" and there is hardly anything I can connote with works predating Bakumatsu or Meiji-period.

 

Reinhard,

 

this is one of the refreshing things about much of Japanese art, it often does look surprisingly modern. One could argue that much of what enlivens contemporary Western design was learned from Japan. Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to post an image of the sort of Western painting of a horse that you feel is an influence as you see it.

 

Just one example of a horse, from a Japanese scroll painting, that bears a remarkable similarity to the way the horse is depicted on the front of the tsuba in question.

 

This is a detail from the Heiji Monogatari scroll. late 13th Century. The black horse in the centre is the one I'm referring to. Absolutely no Western influence here. This style of rendering horses remained popular for at least the following 4 centuries.

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all :D ,

I agree also with Ford upon the fact this tsuba is not a modern one .

But it does not seems so old too .

Consulting the Haynes, the only referenced tsubako of Meiji period is WATANUKI HISANORI with a date around 1875. (Source W - 103 - U - 1). Perhaps should we look towards this carver ?

Friendly

Marc :D

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Another point of comparison (Kiyomisudera Engi Tokyo national museum) :

 

 

[sensei215]

Here is a picture of the box. I haven't been able to find much on the maker myself up to this point.

 

Tim S

[reinhard]

Just one example of a horse, from a Japanese scroll painting, that bears a remarkable similarity to the way the horse is depicted on the front of the tsuba in question.

The black horse in the centre is the one I'm referring to.

 

Ford,

 

Actually there are remarkable differences and they are making the difference between Japanese aesthetics and Western-orientated design. Hardly any artist working for export during second half of 19th century was able to bridge these poles succesfully without betraying one principle or the other. If you don't mind I would like to stick to Tsuba and their very particular demands. Widening the topic to (Western) images and (Japanese) picture scrolls won't get us anywhere. Show me any (confirmed) tsuba by untraceable (sic!) Hisanori or any other Tsubako with a similar design and workmanship predateing late Bakumatsu or Meiji-period and I will bow.

 

This tsuba fits all criteria of late work made for export. Size, design, execution, a dubious, untraceable mei etc. It's quite obvious, don't you think?

 

regards

 

reinhard