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I took a chance on a Tsuba with seal - help needed to ID school/maker - incl before + after pics


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Posted

I took a chance and bought this tsuba cheaply on a doubtful online trading website (seller was a small french botique), only having those poor very dirty (before) pictures below to judge from. However it cleaned up quite well, unfortunately the seal was too corroded to be able to read. I have searched through books, online and so on, but cant find anything that leads me in a more definitive direction of school or maker...

 

 

So any help is very much appreciated - anybody having ideas on school/maker?

 

 

I believe image is of Guan Yu (Kwan Yu) holding his long beard while reading, in the background his Kwan Dao. Tsuba have signature with gold seal/kaao, which unfortunately is impossible to read. Kwan Yu (or Kwan Kung), also known as Guan Yu or Kuan Yu, is a legendary Chinese general from the Three Kingdoms period and is often associated with qualities like bravery, loyalty, and protection.

 

 

 

Measures:
6.8 cm x 7.4 cm x 0.50 cm
 

Weight:
135g

 

 

 

BEFORE & AFTER PICTURES:
 

Before-after-pic-guan-yu-tsuba.jpg

 

 

 

 

VIDEO:

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Jorgensen changed the title to I took a chance on a Tsuba with seal - help needed to ID school/maker - incl before + after pics
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 2/3/2025 at 11:29 PM, Jorgensen said:

I took a chance and bought this tsuba cheaply on a doubtful online trading website (seller was a small french botique), only having those poor very dirty (before) pictures below to judge from. However it cleaned up quite well, unfortunately the seal was too corroded to be able to read. I have searched through books, online and so on, but cant find anything that leads me in a more definitive direction of school or maker...

 

 

So any help is very much appreciated - anybody having ideas on school/maker?

 

 

I believe image is of Guan Yu (Kwan Yu) holding his long beard while reading, in the background his Kwan Dao. Tsuba have signature with gold seal/kaao, which unfortunately is impossible to read. Kwan Yu (or Kwan Kung), also known as Guan Yu or Kuan Yu, is a legendary Chinese general from the Three Kingdoms period and is often associated with qualities like bravery, loyalty, and protection.

 

 

 

Measures:
6.8 cm x 7.4 cm x 0.50 cm
 

Weight:
135g

 

 

 

BEFORE & AFTER PICTURES:
 

Before-after-pic-guan-yu-tsuba.jpg

 

 

 

 

VIDEO:

 

 

Agree that the image is almost certainly Guan Gong. This was a pretty prevalent design in the culture of the later Edo Period and there are many other Tosogu from many different schools depicting Guan Yu... I myself have a Tsuba as well as a Fuchi depicting Guan Yu. The design is typically identifiable by the long beard, crescent blade and reddish face. The deign of Guan Yu sitting at a table as in the case of this piece is also common.

 

As for the school it is difficult for me to say and there are plenty of others better equipped to make a judgement. I would guess maybe Shoami? The combination of metals, depicted scene and style are not dissimilar from one of my own Tsuba... Link to a thread about that one below:

 

That said there are some marked differences in style as well, so take my attribution with a grain of salt!

 

 

 

Posted

@Jake6500

 

Thank you for your comments Jake. I am sure its depicting Guan Yu as well. I actually do have a kozuka with same image shown at last picture.

 

 

Aizu Shoami have crossed my mind too, but what confuses me is that I cannot remember I have seen any Aizu Shoami works with gold seal. 

 

 

As for the gold seal, the seal on my tsuba looks to be of more "compact" or "beefy" in style of those on pictures inserted below:

 

image.png.59a2621cf646237d81c331f9d4a9dcbf.png    image.png.1061c9185705da2bdb11518d28308059.png

 

 

 

rather than seals with fine thin lines like this:

 

image.png.04f55bb81cce7d16ccaae3ff2f11ef9a.png

 

 

 

I have considered Tetsugendo school, as they often used gold seal and same shape/style, but not sure it matches quality.... it could be anything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kozuka, signed Gyoku-Unsai

  • Like 1
Posted
19 minutes ago, Jorgensen said:

@Jake6500

 

Thank you for your comments Jake. I am sure its depicting Guan Yu as well. I actually do have a kozuka with same image shown at last picture.

 

 

Aizu Shoami have crossed my mind too, but what confuses me is that I cannot remember I have seen any Aizu Shoami works with gold seal. 

 

 

As for the gold seal, the seal on my tsuba looks to be of more "compact" or "beefy" in style of those on pictures inserted below:

 

image.png.59a2621cf646237d81c331f9d4a9dcbf.png    image.png.1061c9185705da2bdb11518d28308059.png

 

 

 

rather than seals with fine thin lines like this:

 

image.png.04f55bb81cce7d16ccaae3ff2f11ef9a.png

 

 

 

I have considered Tetsugendo school, as they often used gold seal and same shape/style, but not sure it matches quality.... it could be anything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kozuka, signed Gyoku-Unsai

 

Tetsugendo definitely seems possible also. The background of the tsuba almost gives me Choshu or Bushu Ito vibes but I don't think the foreground style matches those.

Posted

@Matsunoki

Thank you very much for the link. It does not work anymore, however I did see it and that tsuba share many similarities. More than most others I have seen indeed.

 

But... I did have thoughts in direction of Soten/Hikone school at an early stage in my considerations. However, the lack of more defined mimi,  nakago- and hitsu-ana, representation of pines or sukashi at all on my tsuba made me conclude this was not the case. Also the presence of nanako and especially the gold seal on my tsuba supported my idea of not being Soten/Hikone school. I cannot remember ever have seen a Soten/Hikone tsuba with gold seal?

 

My main ideas of school have been working around Tesugendo, Mino or Nara/Hamano... But as there are no rules without exceptions Hikone could absolutely be an option.

 

If any have other ideas, I am all ears :)

 

 

    

Posted
14 hours ago, Jorgensen said:

@Matsunoki

Thank you very much for the link. It does not work anymore, however I did see it and that tsuba share many similarities. More than most others I have seen indeed.

 

But... I did have thoughts in direction of Soten/Hikone school at an early stage in my considerations. However, the lack of more defined mimi,  nakago- and hitsu-ana, representation of pines or sukashi at all on my tsuba made me conclude this was not the case. Also the presence of nanako and especially the gold seal on my tsuba supported my idea of not being Soten/Hikone school. I cannot remember ever have seen a Soten/Hikone tsuba with gold seal?

 

My main ideas of school have been working around Tesugendo, Mino or Nara/Hamano... But as there are no rules without exceptions Hikone could absolutely be an option.

 

If any have other ideas, I am all ears :)

 

 

    

 

I would probably dismiss Hamano as a possibility. Hamano work often tends to curve over the rim/edge and Hamano figures are known to generally have distinctive, mostly gold eyes which does not seem to match the Guan Yu in your tsuba. Whilst iron is not out of the question, Shibuichi also seems to have been more popular for the Hamano school as a base metal.

 

Tetsugendo or Shoami seem a lot more likely.

 

 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Did you see the link to the Hikone example above?

 

I did and it also seems plausible, however from what little I know Hikone works are often half-open works as opposed to fully solid works right? The example you linked has some open sections whilst the tsuba in question is a fully closed design.

 

There are of course some exceptions to this rule that make Hikone a possibility but I would say probably about 90% of all the Hikone tsuba I've seen have a partial open design.

 

P.S. If it is Hikone, it is probably Goshu Hikone

Posted
On 2/15/2025 at 2:37 PM, Matsunoki said:

 

@Matsunoki There is a tsuba very, very similar to the one you linked to on ebay at Powerhouse Collection here: https://collection.p...com.au/object/182953

 

Here they suggest the tsuba to Omi style... That supposeit is Omi branch / Omi Hikone they refer to... Interesting!

 

 

 

 

 

POWERHOUSE TSUBA:

w=1920,q=75,metadata=keep     w=1920,q=75,metadata=keep 

 

 

 

TSUBA ON EBAY:

s-l1600.webp     s-l1600.webp

 

 

 

MY TSUBA:

A tsuba of Guan Yu with gold seal/kao     A tsuba of Guan Yu with gold seal/kao - Image 2

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