Menuki school identification

[Jack Zacao]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help identify the school and/age of this pair of Menuki. They look very old style, I suspect they are before edo or early edo era. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Jack Zacao]

Here is the back.

[Soshin]

@Jack Zacao Not completely sure how well the thickness of base plate correlates with the age of the menuki. Comparing the thickness of the red copper (shakudō 赤銅) base plate of your menuki with examples in my collection yours are characteristic of menuki made during the mid to late Edo Period. I have and once owned a set of apprised menuki by the NTHK with a similar thickness base plate that was dated to the late Edo Period. I currently own an NBTHK apprised pre-Edo Period (Ko-Kinko (古金工) menuki set with a very thin shakudō base plate. I have a few other sets I want to submit for appraisal down the line that have similar thin base plates made of shakudō. I enjoy collecting menuki almost as much as I enjoy collecting tsuba. I can post a few apprised examples, but I don't want to dominate this thread.         

[Jack Zacao]

Thank you Soshin for your comments. I only suspected it was old because of the open work. I heard from somewhere that more open work means older in period. Not sure how much truth to that. I know the Goto school uses thick plate but less open work, i guess thinner plate is better for open work designs otherwise hard to work with … your welcome to post yours to compare. Thanks again.

[ROKUJURO]

Jack, 

the photo of the underside of the MENUKI is not good enough to make a guess if they are hammered into this shape or cast.
Make some nicely focused photos on a dark, non-reflective background, this will enhance the contrast. Then post the photos as cut-outs. 

[Soshin]

17 hours ago, Jack Zacao said:

I only suspected it was old because of the open work.

 

I have read and/or heard the same thing before, not sure how accurate that that statement is. I have these NBTHK papered Ko-Kinko menuki that are large (4.5 cm) show a significant amount of openwork, but the shakudō base plate is much thinner overall than your menuki. Notice the quality of my photos, this is what I think @ROKUJURO is talking about. I have had these menuki for a while in my collection (circa 2017) and my current photography skills and technology are a bit better.  

 

 

 

  

[Jack Zacao]

Thank you both for the comments and suggestions. The plate of my Menuki is not much thicker than Soshin’s because mine are smaller , less than 4 cm in length. They are about 5 grams in total. The crispness of the lines and chisel marks suggest they are not casted, not to this quality. I will try to improve my photo quality in future posts.

[Soshin]

To summarize (Ko-Kinkō 古金工) attribution of my menuki means the NBTHK though that my menuki was made by an early (sometime before the Edo Period) goldsmith (kinkō 金工) of unknown linage.   

 

From what I can see in your two photos provided I don't see anything that makes me think they are modern cast reproductions. I have seen many of these modern cast reproductions before in hand on martial arts training swords and look at their backside it becomes fairly noticeable, they are cast reproductions. To me your menuki look like Edo Period examples that are smaller and likely mounted on a wakazashi or similar sized sword's handle.