What would this metal "defect" indicate?

[Franco D]

Has anyone stopped to consider that this textured background on the subject tsuba is actually intended to be an ishimei and not nanako?

 

 

p.s. one reason for collecting quality pieces is that all of the elements are clear and well defined, unambiguous.

 

Edited January 31 by Franco D
p.s.

[Hokke]

22 minutes ago, Franco D said:

 Did anyone stop to consider that this textured background on the subject tsuba is actually intended to be an ishimei and not nanako?

 

 

 

 

I actually considered this but always viewed ishime as a flattened texture not raised to a dome. The texture on this tsuba looks more like a samegawa pattern with the nodes in no order and varying in size. 

[Jesta]

2 hours ago, Hokke said:

I actually considered this but always viewed ishime as a flattened texture not raised to a dome. The texture on this tsuba looks more like a samegawa pattern with the nodes in no order and varying in size. 

I immediately considered this to be nanako, but Franco makes a good point: It could well be intended as samegawa, in which case the lack of coordination and alignment would make more sense. It still seems too “muddy” to be punched rather than cast, but that could be the quality of the photos. 

[ROKUJURO]

Missing Ford here....again.

[parfaitelumiere]

Please don't call this pattern "nanako", it's not.
This is designed by engraving on a mold, then the plate is stamped.

[Scogg]

1 hour ago, parfaitelumiere said:

Please don't call this pattern "nanako", it's not.
This is designed by engraving on a mold, then the plate is stamped.

Is engraving the mold and stamping a plate meant to mimic nanako?

Or is it a different texture, and with a different name entirely?

Not doubting, just trying to understand.
-Sam

[Stephen]

9 minutes ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

engraving the mold and stamping a plate meant to mimic nanako

Yes

[Dan tsuba]

Interesting tsuba.

So, I have some questions.

KungFooey has a good eye when she stated in a previous post here-

“So the supposed 'nanako' is forming a repeated wave pattern.”

Which means maybe it is not supposed to be nanako at all.

Also, some members say that the tsuba was made by stamping the metal.

If the plate was stamped, how could they achieve the raised motif of the (what I think) is a dragon and the other animal type motif?

Just asking.

[Brian]

Of course it's not nanako. It's obviously raised from the back. Don't think this can be mistaken for punched-in dots. The raised motifs would be added afterwards most likely.

[Jesta]

Quick side question: Does the term “nanako” refer to the design or to the method? Can you have a nanako design that has not been created with a hand punch, for example? 

[Franco D]

 

3 hours ago, Jesta said:

Does the term “nanako” refer to the design or to the method?

 

 

Quote

 

"Tsuba nanako" refers to a Japanese sword guard (tsuba) that features a decorative pattern called "nanako," which literally translates to "fish roe" due to its appearance of tiny, closely packed dots resembling fish eggs; this pattern is often created by meticulously punching small indentations into the metal surface of the tsuba, typically made from shakudō (an alloy of copper and gold), giving it a distinctive textured look. 

AI Over View

 

 

[Jesta]

2 hours ago, Franco D said:

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I was asking more if the term was only used when the pattern was created with a punch, or if it could be used when the pattern was created say by a mould for a cast. 

[Geraint]

Dear All.

 

Just to be clear this is not a sanmai tsuba, or even by my definition a tsuba.  It's a modern production and finding fancy ideas about the possible construction is futile.  This is just  a badly made reproduction.  The marks are the result of poor alignment in the making. the surface finish has nothing to do with traditional Japanese techniques and isn't worth discussing unless you have an interest in low level engineering practice.  A couple of people have already pointed this out but we seem to be stuck on this.

 

John, if you are thinking of buying it then don't.  If you want a few more then have a look here, at the time of writing two of the same design in this Ebay shop. https://www.ebay.co....429486.m3561.l170197

 

All the best.

[Brian]

Geraint,
That seller has written a script to just relist thousands of items available elsewhere in Japan it seems. They don't even do it manually anymore.

[Geraint]

Can't say that I'm surprised Brian, and certainly didn't mean to recommend the seller, just illustrating the point.

 

All the best.

[parfaitelumiere]

I found back the other exemple I was thinking about, made with same process.
I have a very old iron mold, to shape case lid, by stamping I use it as a anvil.
The process is the same, negative engraving for serial stamping or casting, both technics could be possible, wax cast in metal or stamping.

[John C]

4 hours ago, Geraint said:

John, if you are thinking of buying it then don't

Nope. As I noted earlier, I was not intending to buy just trying to figure out what would cause that particular defect. I have seen this defect on many tsuba (pseudo-tsuba?) and am trying to learn what to look for in terms of construction methods. This thread has actually been very helpful to me.

 

John C.

[MauroP]

On 2/1/2025 at 2:12 AM, Jesta said:

Does the term “nanako” refer to the design or to the method?

Nanako describes a pattern, whatsoever the way it was obtained. Here a NBTHK paper reporting nanako-ji in a sanmai tsuba:

https://eirakudo.sho.../tsuba/detail/774209

[Jesta]

2 hours ago, MauroP said:

Nanako describes a pattern, whatsoever the way it was obtained. Here a NBTHK paper reporting nanako-ji in a sanmai tsuba:

https://eirakudo.sho.../tsuba/detail/774209

Thanks. That was what I thought, but wanted to check.