Netsuke-like object name and material help needed

[John C]

Hello:

I just picked up an inro that has a gourd shaped NLO and matching ojime. I was wondering what the name/theme of the gourd is called and what it may represent? Additionally, does anyone have a guess what the gourd would typically be made out of? It looks a bit like bakelite to me, however I'm not sure how old it is. The gourd is very cold to the touch, a bit like stone would be, heavier than it looks but not as heavy as stone, and the stopper emits a very high-pitched squeak when screwed in. I don't see any lines or grain that would indicate bone or ivory.

Any help would be appreciated,

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi John. Thanks for posing a good question. I have seen these before but never really stopped to think too deeply about them. The way they are constructed reminds me of lathe and drill work of Victorian times, especially pomanders and some chess pieces. 

 

The shape is a hyotan (gourd), and the way the string is attached round the waist of the hourglass shape is one of the exceptions we find in Netsuke which more often than not attach through himotoshi holes. These hyotan Netsuke were made of various materials. I still have one in ivory, one in Edo 'bidoro' glass and another made of pine wood, though a rather attractive brass version managed to escape.

 

From the sharp edging of the screw, my feeling is that it is a pomander that has been brought into service as a Netsuke, but I would not like to try and pin down where it was made. I have an ojime somewhere created in the same way.

 

The material is another question. The base looks to be a separate piece that has been screwed or glued in place to cap off the bottom hole. Is there a corresponding piece at the top? Could it be whale bone? 

[John C]

Thank you for the information, Piers. To answer your question, the entire hyotan seems to be one piece, save for the bottom - which I agree seems to have been glued on. As far as dating, the inro is a worn brocade box so not too old. Not sure about bone. It just doesn't have the plastic "feel" to me, so I gravitated toward Bakelite or some similar material. I can say the screw top is uneven enough to be hand carved, as opposed to lathe turning, however the body was probably turned.

Here are pics of the top and the inro.

 

Thanks again,

John C.

[John C]

1 hour ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Could it be whale bone? 

I took another look at the body with a stronger loupe and there are some vertical fine lines, like crazing. There are also very fine uniform circular horizontal lines from when it was turned and/or sanded. None of these are visible without a loupe. I suspect bone is a possibility. And your guess of Victorian-era lathe work is probably spot on.

 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Hi John, is it really hollowed out or just a “tube” hollowed out? If fully hollowed then Piers is on the money with a pomander.

The material could be bone especially if it is really hollowed and that would explain the need for a separate base. However to hollow it out fully would also explain that need ie to get inside it easily. 

The material could also be tagua/coquilla nut which was used quite a lot on such objects.

Have a search for tagua pomander or coquilla pomander…..might find something.

Not sure of its age. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Colin, I have a tagua pomander at home, (and a couple of tagua Netsuke) but the colour looks wrong. Tagua (vegetable ivory) starts white but gradually turns cloudy to dark orange. And the finished size and shape is limited by the size of the nut, unless you can find a giant one.

[Matsunoki]

True Piers but I’m not so sure this is old. Reminds me of……

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226559527472?_skw=tagua+nut+pomander&itmmeta=01JJRQFHMZ2WB92H9MMHG1YFY5&hash=item34c0000a30:g:4PgAAOSwCcpj-KQq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlG1pKs1GDlULtNHoOeuoAwfhsSfNXPZgnPjWF80RN22Z0lGOqLiEHax%2Bkpe1DprmSrlIqTneG5GozxYbV3VEzNdxyHqMvXV4UyYSaJGOHxH00BDT3o5cDvIHc%2BBrHHWhnafR7IJ5ScWiNKEjuAQKr46MMHnBGmbAEzzUm5pFsJmBGxZk5o8hZi7O6wNX38KnR3cRj6l1ruG5lQmBfUNDZ%2FvfM%2FZtjQJ9XNK6Um4Keh5%2B%2BPGGHL0JAhFbLveaycKUuupKZse5ZqkQtXeGNqTo5WroEYP2%2BEyaJA1OUwHU%2FNww%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8yavpeWZQ

[Matsunoki]

Some an be pretty big!

https://www.woodcraf...gua-nut-pack-5-piece

[John C]

14 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

s it really hollowed out or just a “tube” hollowed out?

Colin:

I took a look inside (not an easy task) and was able to see it is completely hollowed out, following the outer shape. In addition, there seems to be a very small rib on the inside middle of the bottom piece. At first, I thought it may be a mold line, however it stops at the sides. Possibly for strength or as a gluing surface? Reminds me of cutting open a chili pepper and seeing the ribs. 

When I bought it, I was assuming early to mid Showa given the whole piece was only 50 dollars. 

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

13 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Some an be pretty big!

https://www.woodcraf...gua-nut-pack-5-piece

Wow, that’s just nuts!

 

(The working process on your thimble container looks very similar, but I’ve worked with tagua in the past and it’s not giving me the same material vibe as in John’s photos.)

[Matsunoki]

9 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

but I’ve worked with tagua in the past and it’s not giving me the same material vibe as in John’s photos.)

 

On 1/29/2025 at 3:18 AM, John C said:

suspect bone is a possibilit

Had another closer look. Pretty certain it’s bone. These little black dots and fine lines look just like the fine blood vessels that run through bone. I would think Ox is a good candidate and would provide enough material to turn and hollow. It would also necessitate the separate base section. You can see the detail if you blow up the images.

As for where it was made…hmmm….Japanese “shape” but clearly UK Victorian manufacturing techniques and function. The Ojime could of course be a large bead adapted. Quite a puzzle.

[John C]

Thank you guys for the input. I agree with the collective assessment. So maybe a little older than I thought and made with traditional material. 

 

John C.