Mushin Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 Just for laughs (and to gauge the burgeoning power of Artificial Intelligence language models) I asked ChatGPT to liken several Japanese swordsmiths to famous European painters. Given my Sōshū prejudices, it is limited but IMHO extremely interesting. The list is by no means comprehensive and is in no way intended to be the final word or anything more than it is, an exercise in curiosity. It’s interesting both from the perspective of machine learning as well as program’s cultivation of facts and opinions. The logic ChatGPT gave for each comparison was particularly insightful and well-reasoned, really, though it was all a bit too lengthy to include here. In some ways, I think these comparisons can be especially useful for newbies trying to understand the importance of certain smiths, offering some relatable comparisons. I encourage others to see where this goes just for fun. In the meantime, here is what the bot came up with: Shintōgo Kunimitsu would be likened to Giotto di Bondone Sōshū Yukimitsu would be likened to Claude Monet Saeki Norishige would be likened to Rembrandt van Rijn Gorō Nyūdō Masamune would be likened to Leonardo Da Vinci Hikoshiro Sadamune would be likened to Raphael Chikuzen Samonji would be likened to El Greco Sōshū Hiromitsu would be likened to Titian Sōshū Akihiro would be likened to Peter Paul Rubens Go Yoshihiro would be likened to Michelangleo Awataguchi Yoshimitsu would be likened to Johan van Eyk Bizen Masatsune would be likened to Albrecht Dürer Shizu Saburo Kaneuji would be likened to Michelangelo Buonarroti Sengo Muramasa would be likened to Michelangelo Mersi da Caravaggio Horikawa Kunihiro would be likened to Peter Paul Rubens 2 Quote
Natichu Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 38 minutes ago, Mushin said: Just for laughs (and to gauge the burgeoning power of Artificial Intelligence language models) I asked ChatGPT to liken several Japanese swordsmiths to famous European painters. Given my Sōshū prejudices, it is limited but IMHO extremely interesting. The list is by no means comprehensive and is in no way intended to be the final word or anything more than it is, an exercise in curiosity. It’s interesting both from the perspective of machine learning as well as program’s cultivation of facts and opinions. The logic ChatGPT gave for each comparison was particularly insightful and well-reasoned, really, though it was all a bit too lengthy to include here. In some ways, I think these comparisons can be especially useful for newbies trying to understand the importance of certain smiths, offering some relatable comparisons. I encourage others to see where this goes just for fun. In the meantime, here is what the bot came up with: Shintōgo Kunimitsu would be likened to Giotto di Bondone Sōshū Yukimitsu would be likened to Claude Monet Saeki Norishige would be likened to Rembrandt van Rijn Gorō Nyūdō Masamune would be likened to Leonardo Da Vinci Hikoshiro Sadamune would be likened to Raphael Chikuzen Samonji would be likened to El Greco Sōshū Hiromitsu would be likened to Titian Sōshū Akihiro would be likened to Peter Paul Rubens Go Yoshihiro would be likened to Michelangleo Awataguchi Yoshimitsu would be likened to Johan van Eyk Bizen Masatsune would be likened to Albrecht Dürer Shizu Saburo Kaneuji would be likened to Michelangelo Buonarroti Sengo Muramasa would be likened to Michelangelo Mersi da Caravaggio Horikawa Kunihiro would be likened to Peter Paul Rubens While I only know a little about smiths, and even less about painters, I very much enjoy the Muramasa-as-Caravaggio casting. 1 Quote
Steve Waszak Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 Very interesting post, Bobby. Thanks. I'd be curious to know the rationale used to "liken" a particular smith to a specific painter. What does "liken" mean here? I'd also be interested to see how tsubako would fare in this experiment. Quote
lonely panet Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 I think its a completely fruitless idea to compare swordsmiths to painters. Completely different purposes for the use of the end product Quote
nulldevice Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 26 minutes ago, lonely panet said: I think its a completely fruitless idea to compare swordsmiths to painters. Completely different purposes for the use of the end product You don't use your 700 year old paintings to cut down your enemies? Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 It may be a fun game, but I feel there should be some scale or field where these famous names could be put side to side. It could be the celebrity in their time and societies or a comparative standard in their respective field of arts. The artistic relevance in our time or the market values might be another possibility. Interesting thoughts, but I just would like to be able to follow the idea behind it. Quote
Mushin Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 To understand what the machine used to compare smiths to painters, the bot gave very interesting explanations for its choices. I think the query I used was something like: "If Japanese sword smiths were compared to famous European painters, which painter would XXXXXXX compare to and why?" The explanations were as interesting as the choices the machine made. For example. with Akihiro it said: "Sōshū Akihiro was a significant figure in the middle Sōshū period, innovating and refining the techniques pioneered by his teacher, Masamune. Similarly, Rubens worked within the Baroque tradition but added his own dramatic flair and dynamic compositions. Both Akihiro and Rubens are recognized as masters who balanced tradition with their individual innovative contributions, leaving a lasting impact on their respective fields. "Akihiro's swords are noted for their boldness and vitality, combining functionality with beauty. His works often feature vibrant hitatsura hamon (full temper) and striking jigane (steel grain), qualities that reflect confidence and dynamism. Rubens’s paintings, like The Descent from the Cross, are similarly bold, with dynamic figures, dramatic movement, and vivid contrasts that draw the viewer's attention." To my mind there was a real effort to explain its choice. And these are only language models. When General AI comes along it will be a whole new ballgame, which is both extremely interesting and concerning all at the same time. Try it out on your own with the maker(s) of your choice. Like I said, it was meant to be just an exercise in fun. 3 Quote
Natichu Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 2 hours ago, lonely panet said: I think its a completely fruitless idea to compare swordsmiths to painters. Completely different purposes for the use of the end product I think it might bear fruit for some. If you have a deep knowledge of painters, it may give you a mental hook or anchoring point to better remember smiths and some of their qualities (scaffolding off your existing knowledge). Or it might help you understand the relative ranking of smiths' skills and prestige. It doesn't do any of the above for me, but I can see it being both entertaining and helpful for some. After all, someone familiar with swords once said that if you know the way broadly you'll see it in all things. 2 Quote
Scogg Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 I find it entertaining to see how AI decided to rank things. I agree with @Natichu that Caravaggio to Muramasa comparison is a good one! I think Masamune and Go Yoshihiro being likened to DaVinci and Michelangelo respectively is an interesting thought. Not that I’ve ever seen a Go Yoshihiro sword or a Masamune, but I am surprised to see ai pick up on Go Yoshihiro’s notoriety over Masamune’s fame. Michelangelo is sometimes considered superior to DaVinci, which I personally agree with. But DaVinci was much more inventive. Anyway, no points to be made just some musings. -Sam Photo I took of a shield that Caravaggio painted on display in Florence Italy 2 Quote
reinhard Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Comparing paintings with blades 1:1 doesn't make much sense, but so-called "AI" is stupid and will do whatever you ask, unless you ask for sensitive and censored information. Nevertheless the question (prompt) marks an in important point: Good Nihon-To is more than a tool. It is the ultimate approach to combine functionality with beauty. reinhard 6 Quote
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