Jussi Ekholm Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 As I promised in last kantei thread I was looking to make another one. I was happy with the participation in the first one, so I thought it would be fun to make a second one. Unfortunately again I have to use pictures from various books for this sword as I cannot provide real life kantei example. This should to my understanding be somewhat typical work of the smith, as that is important when trying to identify the smith. As this is just fun guessing to get people involved it would be wrong to choose atypical example by the smith. Just for the fun of debates that we had recently I typed in sugata, kitae and hamon descriptions in Japanese from book where this item is featured. I tried to translate them to English but there are the Japanese original texts as I might have made errors. I hope everyone will have fun in this one too. This time the pictures should be bit better than last time as I could choose best ones from multiple books. I will post the answer on 31.1. so everyone should have time to look and participate if they want. Nagasa: 73,9 cm Sori: 2,1 cm Motohaba: 3,2 cm Sakihaba: 2,2 cm Motogasane: 6,2 mm Sakigasane: 4,0 mm Kissaki: 3,3 cm Nakago: 20,4 cm Shinogi-zukuri, iori-mune Width is normal and sugata is good with slight koshi-zori. 身幅切先とも尋常やや腰反りのついた踏張りのあるよい姿である Well forged ko-itame hada, with thick ji-nie. 鍛え小板目よく約み, 地沸厚くつく Hamon is ko-nie chōji-midare mixed with gunome, there are tobiyaki 刃文小沸深い丁子乱に互の目交じり, 処々飛焼きごころある Nakago is ubu, 1 ana with ha-agari kurijiri. On omote side there is a 7-character signature and there is a date on ura side. 11 1 Quote
oli Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Spoiler Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke, first Generation Kunisuke 1 Quote
KungFooey Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Spoiler Osafune Yokoyama Sukeyoshi, 58th generation Bizen Tomonari 備州長船住 横山祐義 友成五十八代孫 1 Quote
French nihonto Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Spoiler Bizen no Suke Fujiwara Munetsugu 2 Quote
atm Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Spoiler Chikuzen Koretsugu Thanks for doing these @Jussi Ekholm. They are a lot of fun, and I learn as I research to formulate my bid. 1 Quote
nulldevice Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 Spoiler Nobukuni Yoshisada I’m probably way off but these are a fun learning experience! 1 Quote
Peter Bleed Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 Spoiler I am not sure how to hide this 1 Quote
Peter Bleed Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 1 minute ago, Peter Bleed said: Reveal hidden contents I am not sure how to hide this Spoiler Osaka Shinto 1 Quote
Jacques Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 Miss the lower part of the hamon and the yakidashi. However i'll try a guess Spoiler Kawachi no kami Fujiwara Kunisuke 1 Quote
Benjamin Posted January 30 Report Posted January 30 Spoiler My try on the late (we had until tomorrow after all) : Osaka Ishido school Tosa Shōgen Tameyasu - 土佐将監橘為康 1 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted January 30 Author Report Posted January 30 河内守藤原国助 / 寛永十九年二月吉日- Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke (first generation) dated 1642, this katana was designated as Jūyō Bijutsuhin [重要美術品]. Now this is outside my preferred old swords, so I thought it would be fun to mix things up. Congratulations to everyone getting the correct result, and some members PM’d me the answer too. The pictures and original text were far from perfect but I am happy so many people participated in the quiz and hopefully everybody had fun doing it. I will try to write somekind of a writeup where I include some references to the answers that were guessed. Unfortunately I do not have enough knowledge to truly discuss the finer details about the differences in guesses. So I will take few quotes by experts. Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke is considered to be one of the founders of Ōsaka-Shintō school. I believe in current theory he comes from Horikawa school with him possibly having roots in Ishidō school. Quote from Nihon Shintō Shi “Unfortunately, the quality of Kunisuke´s works varies. His best blades are on the same level as the great masterworks of the Horikawa school, others are just average Ōsaka-shintō blades. With the 1st generation Kunisuke we can see a reminiscence of a Keichō-shintō-sugata but he mostly made shinogi-zukuri katana and wakizashi in Kanbun-shintō-sugata, i.e. with a shallow sori, a narrow sakihaba and a relatively small kissaki. The jigane is an itame with a tendency to nagare. Ji-nie and chikei appear in Horikawa-style. Naturally he also forged an Ōsaka-jigane with a dense ko-itame and fine ji-nie. The hamon is a notare-gunome mixed with chōji and ashi and the nioiguchi is wide and shows plenty of ko-nie. Some hamon interpretations remind us of Oya-Kunisada. He also applied a suguha or ō-midare but in any case a conspicuous amount of chōji is seen. The bōshi is mostly ko-maru but can run out as yakitsume or show hakikake. He also tempered a midare-komi-bōshi. Kunisuke signed the part „Kawachi no Kami“ smaller than the part „Fujiwara Kunisuke“, but the difference in size decreases over the years. However, this peculiarity is also seen with other shintō smiths. For the sake of differentiation with the 2nd generation, he is also called „Oya-Kunisuke“ (親国助) or „Oya-Kawachi“ (親河内)” Quote from Tōken Bijutsu 654 where a katana by second generation Kunisuke was one of the kantei items at NBTHK HQ. ” But some got the time wrong and went for the shinshintō schools of Yokoyama (横山) and Hosokawa (細川) which are also well known for working in the Bizen tradition. But the Kanbun-shintō-sugata does not match with shinshintō and also the jihada would tend to muji in the latter case. Regarding the hamon, the yakidashi of the Yokoya school does match with Kunisuke but the rhythm of the hamon would be more monotonous and the nioiuchi more compact. On the other hand, a yakidashi is quite rare for the Hosokawa school and also a kobushigata-chōji is totally uncommon for smiths of this lineage.” The above quotes do not relate to this particular sword but I posted them to give reference how works of this smith lineage can be seen. One thing about size is that it is quite common throughout the ages. You can find similar sized tachi and katana. 6 1 2 Quote
oli Posted January 30 Report Posted January 30 thank you Jussi, it was a lot of fun. I can also mention the Shinto/Shinshinto Kantei book from Markus Sesko was very helpful. Quote
Robert S Posted January 30 Report Posted January 30 It was great fun lurking i this thread. I don't know nearly enough to even have ventured a guess. Way to go everyone who did! One question: Nihon Shinto Shi mentions "shallow Sori". Looking at that blade, I wouldn't have defined the sori as shallow - more like average... but my eye is probably off. Quote
Natichu Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 Many thanks Jussi, these threads have been a lot of fun thus far and a great way for a beginner like me to start to dive into things a bit more, even if it's just to learn about details I didn't even know I should be considering. 8 hours ago, Robert S said: It was great fun lurking i this thread. I don't know nearly enough to even have ventured a guess. Way to go everyone who did! One question: Nihon Shinto Shi mentions "shallow Sori". Looking at that blade, I wouldn't have defined the sori as shallow - more like average... but my eye is probably off. And don't worry about not knowing enough Robert, you won't do worse than I am and it's good fun to throw your hat into the ring. 1 Quote
Jacques Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 Quote Osafune Yokoyama Sukeyoshi, 58th generation Bizen Tomonari 備州長船住 横山祐義 友成五十八代孫 Sukekane 祐包 instead Sukeyoshi Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 Robert the one thing that might create mix up is that the text passages in the answer post are not for this particular work but what is considered as common work of the smith (and his lineage) in general. I do personally think the curvature of the quiz blade would be "normal / average", I see it as very common curvature, not easy to guess period judging that. I do fully agree with Oliver that Markus Seskos Kantei books are extremely good resource, I use them very often. I believe the items in Kantei books are items that have been presented for kantei at NBTHK HQ as I have them also in the magazines. The great thing when reading about kantei items in NBTHK Tōken Bijutsu magazines is the fact that an expert includes an explanation of some common incorrect guesses. As I participate in NBTHK monthly magazine kantei it has been extremely helpful to read the explanation on the times I have been wrong and sometimes I can understand why I chose wrong smith after reading it. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge of writing such piece and include guesses and compare them to the quiz smith. 1 1 Quote
Natichu Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 Excellent timing, as this just came up in Aoi: https://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi：kawachi-no-kami-fujiwara-kunisuke-first-generationnbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ A shobu zukuri wakizashi (unless you're of the view that unless the shinogi meets the mune directly at the point, it's not a true shobu zukuri), quite lovely to my eye but I'm very partial to that blade shape. Quote
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