Help identifying?

[Nido42]

Sorry if this is not allowed. I'm new to this whole thing and appeared to have reached a limit on posting photos. So had to share the link. I do apologize 

[George KN]

Hi Nido, welcome to the forum! 

 

Since nobody has replied on this thread yet, I think it's safe to say we need some better photos... To fit them within the forum's size limit you do often have to crop the excess space, and even then sometimes also reduce the quality a bit, but it is doable (I use paint dot net for this on my laptop).

 

Better pictures of the nakago (tang) would in particular be super helpful. I'm not sure the spotlight is doing much good here - it can be a good technique for looking at micro-details like the hamon and hada of a blade, but it's made the rest of it so dark I can't really make anything out!

 

I would say that it initially looks to be a genuine antique Japanese blade that was made before the war (probably a very long time before ) - although it does look in a bit of a rough shape.  

 

 

[Nido42]

2 hours ago, George KN said:

Hi Nido, welcome to the forum! 

 

Since nobody has replied on this thread yet, I think it's safe to say we need some better photos... To fit them within the forum's size limit you do often have to crop the excess space, and even then sometimes also reduce the quality a bit, but it is doable (I use paint dot net for this on my laptop).

 

Better pictures of the nakago (tang) would in particular be super helpful. I'm not sure the spotlight is doing much good here - it can be a good technique for looking at micro-details like the hamon and hada of a blade, but it's made the rest of it so dark I can't really make anything out!

 

I would say that it initially looks to be a genuine antique Japanese blade that was made before the war (probably a very long time before ) - although it does look in a bit of a rough shape.  

 

 

Thank you for the help George! The whole forum thinknin general is all new for me. Do you have recommendations on which pictures would be the most important to share? Aside from the tang? Also, would deleting them from the other post allow for more space? As of this post I have a 2mb limit so I couldn't post any other pictures. The blade has many scratches and some spots of black rust. And some very small black "pits" it looks like. Thank you!

[Nido42]

1 minute ago, Nido42 said:

Thank you for the help George! The whole forum thinknin general is all new for me. Do you have recommendations on which pictures would be the most important to share? Aside from the tang? Also, would deleting them from the other post allow for more space? As of this post I have a 2mb limit so I couldn't post any other pictures. The blade has many scratches and some spots of black rust. And some very small black "pits" it looks like. Thank you!

Also, is the blade being so slender at all odd? I think a quarter might even be wider thar it is. I always imagined they were all made with a wide blade

[Brian]

19 minutes ago, Nido42 said:

Thank you for the help George! The whole forum thinknin general is all new for me. Do you have recommendations on which pictures would be the most important to share? Aside from the tang? Also, would deleting them from the other post allow for more space? As of this post I have a 2mb limit so I couldn't post any other pictures. The blade has many scratches and some spots of black rust. And some very small black "pits" it looks like. Thank you!

You have 3 Megs PER POST, and no limit on posts. Plus pics should be scaled down, we don't want 300dpi cell pics that are billboard size straight from the cell. It's easy enough to get pics down to 200kb or so.
You could post 10 pics in one reply and still not hit the limit. Plus reply, and post more. Cropping pics so we don't get 80% of the pic being the table is also appreciated.
Gold membership gives you even more space per post.
Trust me , there is plenty space per person that many have thousands of uploads and haven't hit a limit.
 

[Nido42]

39 minutes ago, Brian said:

You have 3 Megs PER POST, and no limit on posts. Plus pics should be scaled down, we don't want 300dpi cell pics that are billboard size straight from the cell. It's easy enough to get pics down to 200kb or so.
You could post 10 pics in one reply and still not hit the limit. Plus reply, and post more. Cropping pics so we don't get 80% of the pic being the table is also appreciated.
Gold membership gives you even more space per post.
Trust me , there is plenty space per person that many have thousands of uploads and haven't hit a limit.
 

Okay thank you. I tried in this forum but it didn't give me any more space to post photos so wasn't sure if it was per account or how it worked

[Jon L]

1 hour ago, Nido42 said:

Also, is the blade being so slender at all odd? I think a quarter might even be wider thar it is. I always imagined they were all made with a wide blade

I would call that normal, especially for a tired old wak.

 

Jon

[Nido42]

17 hours ago, Nido42 said:

Sorry if this is not allowed. I'm new to this whole thing and appeared to have reached a limit on posting photos. So had to share the link. I do apologize

Here is a better picture of the signature 

[Jussi Ekholm]

To me signature looks like 長義 - Nagayoshi.

[George KN]

Thanks Nido for the extra pic!

 

I think Jon said it best - this looks to be a rather tired old Wakizashi. It's probably not super valuable, but is very old, and has a lot to teach.

 

I won't pass judgement on the signature/smith (that's beyond me) but here's my beginners thoughts on that latest image:

 

 

I'm guessing somewhat here, but judging from the aging on the very bottom of the nakago, the general form of the blade, and it's thinness and current length, I would say this is from the Koto period or earlier: https://www.Japanese...index.com/period.htm (Please correct me guys if I'm obviously wrong, I'm still trying to learn myself!)

 

The second ana/hole in the tang clearly shows it has been shortened (I have guesstimated where it used to start), and if you said the sharp part of the blade is currently 58.4 cm, this would have made it a katana back in the day. I'm thinking the current signature may well have been carved when the suriage/shortening happened - but whether it was copying an original signature I don't know.

 

What is rather odd about this tang is the lack of the notch on the sharp part of the blade, the hamachi, as well as the fact that there is so little metal between the bohi/groove and the mune/back. This makes me think it has since been shortened again in a non-traditional manner fairly recently, but without creating a new ana.

I'm wondering whether it was first shortened for something like the satsuma rebellion or ww2, and then the hamachi and mune ground down badly to fit the more modern koshirae or perhaps removed during a bad modern/non-traditional polish (hard to tell from just this image). 

[Nido42]

18 minutes ago, George KN said:

Thanks Nido for the extra pic!

 

I think Jon said it best - this looks to be a rather tired old Wakizashi. It's probably not super valuable, but is very old, and has a lot to teach.

 

I won't pass judgement on the signature/smith (that's beyond me) but here's my beginners thoughts on that latest image:

 

 

I'm guessing somewhat here, but judging from the aging on the very bottom of the nakago, the general form of the blade, and it's thinness and current length, I would say this is from the Koto period or earlier: https://www.Japanese...index.com/period.htm (Please correct me guys if I'm obviously wrong, I'm still trying to learn myself!)

 

The second ana/hole in the tang clearly shows it has been shortened (I have guesstimated where it used to start), and if you said the sharp part of the blade is currently 58.4 cm, this would have made it a katana back in the day. I'm thinking the current signature may well have been carved when the suriage/shortening happened - but whether it was copying an original signature I don't know.

 

What is rather odd about this tang is the lack of the notch on the sharp part of the blade, the hamachi, as well as the fact that there is so little metal between the bohi/groove and the mune/back. This makes me think it has since been shortened again in a non-traditional manner fairly recently, but without creating a new ana.

I'm wondering whether it was first shortened for something like the satsuma rebellion or ww2, and then the hamachi and mune ground down badly to fit the more modern koshirae...

So if it were shortened wouldn't the groove be further down as well? And it being from a vet who brought it back from ww2 I would think that would make sense as well. Non of the fittings really fit and just slide off. The scabbard seems to be more modern and fits the habaki well but the habaki doesn't really fit the blade. Also the scabbard seems to be made of old cheap wood that was at some point glued together maybe because both sides have come apart and the only thing holding them together really are the 2 metal rings.

[George KN]

17 minutes ago, Nido42 said:

wouldn't the groove be further down as well

Yes, it would likely be if it was original - so it makes me think the groove was added after the first shortening (but also before the current position of the habaki, because it goes under it)