difficult hobby

Dan tsuba · January 15

Yes, GeorgeLuucas,

But they are still both fruits. So maybe not that far apart. It would be a lot easier if a date was stamped on the tsuba.

Like I said before a difficult hobby. And one I don’t think I will collect. Just to complicated.

Thaks for the post.

KungFooey · January 17

On 1/15/2025 at 7:54 PM, martialarts said:

Like I said before a difficult hobby. And one I don’t think I will collect. Just to complicated.

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I rest my case.

Dan tsuba · January 17

KungFoey,

There are many nice people on this forum. But your spirit seems different.

Are you agreeing that this is a complicated hobby, and you are now going to collect stamps.

Or are you saying this is a complicated hobby and I shold’t even try

ROKUJURO · January 17

No one said you should do something you don't like or you don't feel comfortable with.

TSUBA may indeed seem complicated for someone who does not want to spend years of learning or is not interested in Japanese culture and arts. There is enough room ( = hobbies ) for all of us.

Scogg · January 17

Let's not allow this to get into the negativity realm. You should collect Tsuba, if it interests you. But you are correct, it is a difficult hobby, and the learning curve will be steep. You could always try getting an affordable (to you) tsuba, and see how it interests you in-hand, and then decide after that.

While apples and oranges are both fruits.. Apples are to oranges, what an old government stamp is to an antique oil painting.

To each their own, my friend.
Godspeed,
-Sam

Matsunoki · January 17

I don’t even think collecting tsuba is difficult.

Tsuba are plentiful and easily available. Prices can vary from a few $ to many thousands.

However collecting “good” tsuba requires acquiring knowledge and developing the eye that enables you to apply that knowledge…..and the money needed.

…..and what constitutes a “good” Tsuba (and its “$value”) will vary greatly from collector to collector.

Some collect certain artists, certain schools, certain designs, certain periods, certain techniques, certain materials…..there is a huge variety to chose from.….or if you simply want to collect tsuba that simply appeal to you then there is nothing to stop you. Go buy some and see. If you decide it’s not for you then sell them.

You will make financial mistakes (as many of us have) but you will learn from them.

You will make errors of judgement but again you will learn and refine your eye.

If however you want a hobby where you can look up that exact tsuba and ascertain its precise age, maker and price then maybe tsuba are not for you.

I’m sure some of this has been said above already but my attention wandered a bit.

Andi B. · January 17

It is interesting that the act of collecting seems to be more important and fun for collectors, than the actual collection items. Some people collect stamps 😐, others tsuba 😃 or Danish beer bottle caps 🤔 - and sometimes change the topic to start a new collection.

I like Japanese antiques and if they are nice and affordable, I maybe buy them. So unintentionally I accumulate pieces and this becomes a kind of collection, but I won't call me a "collector". Because I don't have the urge to "complete" any set based on defined rules, but simply like to be surrounded by curiosities 🏯...

Dan tsuba · January 17

So back from work. A lot of nice posts, thanks. And then there was that post that looks to have a sad face on it. What is that post trying to say

I will wait till I recieve the book from my friend Tsuba Collecting for the Beginner.

Then maybe I will try buying my own tsuba.

I will keep on reading threads here and try to learn some stuff.

Hokke · January 18

On 1/13/2025 at 9:29 PM, martialarts said:

I have been thinking about collecting my own tsubas . I have read a few of the threads here.

It all seems very complicated. It is not like coin collecting or stamp collecting. I have read where museums could be wrong. I have read where the NVTHK could be wrong. I have read where members who thought they were right were told they are wrong.

If I have a question about tsubas, who is the final authority.

I guess that this is not an easy hobby to get involved in.

I think maybe I will stay with coin and stamp collecting where there seems to be more absolutenes.

But I have been looking at tsubas on EBay.

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Im curious why how you came to interested in tsuba in the first place. Is it just tsuba or all tosogu? Personally, I think you have to ask yourself WHY? Here's some basic questions that may help you along your way:

Why tsuba? Is it the art, history, value?

What do you want to do with the tsuba you purchase? Own them to appreciate them or try to find good deals so you can trade/sell them for profit?

What is your budget, how much are you trying to invest? Do you want to own many inexpensive tsuba, or a few high quality tsuba

How deep do you want to get into it? Do you have access or plan to attend events, like NTHK and sword shows? Orlando, San Francisco, Chicago etc....

I think these are important for you to consider since we are not talking about items that are $10-$20 that can be found in relative abundance here in the states. Sure, there are plenty of dealers and private sellers, but unlike stamps, Japanese tsuba were only produced in Japan whereas stamps were made in countries all over the world and thus are likely going to be far more plentiful, not to mention span a price spectrum that makes them far more affordable.

It seems you "like" tsuba for whatever the reason and I think thats great, but if you "loved" tsuba, I dont know if you would be struggling to decide if you should enter the club. So, that leaves just one last question, do you want to "collect" and spend your money on something you like, or something you LOVE?

Just my $.02

Bugyotsuji · January 18

Coins and tsuba both start with a metal pancake. Both are fascinating objects that can transport you backwards in time.

An artisan once told me that a quality iron plate for a tsuba might cost US $250 today, even in its raw state.

Tsuba are larger and more tactile in the hand, allowing you to connect with the maker and sometimes the user(s). Each Tsuba holds little clues, apart from any inscriptions on it, and part of the allure (besides the cameo-like aesthetics) is the hunt for the story behind it. Hard, indeed, but that in itself can add interest, sometimes taking years to narrow down. In some cases you may find an exact date (if a recorded smith added his/her age, for example), but in many cases smith lists will record their place of work (eg Edo) and rough working years (eg Bunsei). Some will remain a puzzle, but you can always consult people and solicit opinions to help narrow it down, if you like it enough.

You will find that tsuba collectors may have found a particular niche. One of my friends for example only collects Bizen Suruga.

Some are more broad, liking Edo soft metal, others iron. Horses for courses applies!

(General thoughts, maybe echoing some posts of others above…)

KungFooey · January 18

On 1/17/2025 at 1:11 PM, martialarts said:

KungFoey,

There are many nice people on this forum. But your spirit seems different.

Are you agreeing that this is a complicated hobby, and you are now going to collect stamps.

Or are you saying this is a complicated hobby and I shold’t even try

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You keep saying it's too complicated and you shouldn't even try, sweetie.

Sorry if I'm not nice for pointing that out.

KungFooey · January 18

Another downvote😂

OK Jacob, you're obviously a real sensitive guy - so let me put it another way.

Your user name is 'martialarts' so I'm assuming you actually practice some kind of martial art? Me too - I've done MMA for 16 years.

So tell me, how would your sensei/trainer react if somebody came to their dojo/gym and said "I'm thinking about taking up this fighting stuff but it looks waaay difficult - you convince me why I should bother doing it."

Just sayin'.

Dee

Dan tsuba · January 18

Well Kung Foey, I am yodan level. If someone came to the dojo and stated what you said I would just have them sit and watch a class. Then after class I would explain the particular martial art that is taught and if they are still interested I would give them a coupple of free lessons. I have done that before (with sensei’s permission).

Of course I have always been interested in Japanese art. And I have even practiced iaido. But real swords are expensive, that is why I am asking about tsuba and stayed with stamp and coins.

My friend, who is also a martial artist collects some tsuba and got me interested and emailled me about the forum. Although they also can be expensive, I have seen some that are not expensive.

So I think I will learn more about them, as others on the forum have stated some good information how to learn and then try my first purchase.

I will wait for my friend to send me the beginner book, and I have also ordered some other books. In the meantime I will just keep training in martial arts and learn about tsuba collecting.

KungFooey · January 18

On 1/18/2025 at 12:36 PM, martialarts said:

Well Kung Foey, I am yodan level. If someone came to the dojo and stated what you said I would just have them sit and watch a class. Then after class I would explain the particular martial art that is taught and if they are still interested I would give them a coupple of free lessons. I have done that before (with sensei’s permission).

Of course I have always been interested in Japanese art. And I have even practiced iaido. But real swords are expensive, that is why I am asking about tsuba and stayed with stamp and coins.

My friend, who is also a martial artist collects some tsuba and got me interested and emailled me about the forum. Although they also can be expensive, I have seen some that are not expensive.

So I think I will learn more about them, as others on the forum have stated some good information how to learn and then try my first purchase.

I will wait for my friend to send me the beginner book, and I have also ordered some other books. In the meantime I will just keep training in martial arts and learn about tsuba collecting.

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That's an impressive level and takes real dedication.

Thank you for replying in such detail and good luck with the tsuba collecting. They have just as much historical and artistic appeal as the swords.

Sincerely,

Dee

Gakusee · January 18

On 1/18/2025 at 12:36 PM, martialarts said:

Well Kung Foey, I am yodan level. If someone came to the dojo and stated what you said I would just have them sit and watch a class. Then after class I would explain the particular martial art that is taught and if they are still interested I would give them a coupple of free lessons. I have done that before (with sensei’s permission).

Of course I have always been interested in Japanese art. And I have even practiced iaido. But real swords are expensive, that is why I am asking about tsuba and stayed with stamp and coins.

My friend, who is also a martial artist collects some tsuba and got me interested and emailled me about the forum. Although they also can be expensive, I have seen some that are not expensive.

So I think I will learn more about them, as others on the forum have stated some good information how to learn and then try my first purchase.

I will wait for my friend to send me the beginner book, and I have also ordered some other books. In the meantime I will just keep training in martial arts and learn about tsuba collecting.

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Have not checked thread, but did anyone recommend to you Markus Sesko’s Tosogu Classroom? If not, I think both you and Dee will benefit from it.

Spartancrest · January 18

On 1/18/2025 at 9:27 AM, KungFooey said:

Another downvote😂

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It might be a good idea to change "Downvote" to "I don't agree with that" - it would be somewhat less aggressive for all.

What say you Brian?

Bugyotsuji · January 19

For years on this forum no one (hardly ever) used the red down-vote button.

The first time I saw it not too long ago it was actually shocking, that someone had not bothered to speak or reason against a position. It seemed so harsh and point-blank.

Suddenly it has become commonplace here, for whatever reason.

Alex A · January 19

Certain people seem to use it a lot. If they use it a lot without giving reason, it reflects badly on them rather than whoever it is aimed at.

Saying that though, since referring to them as the "Red arrow Brigade", they don't seem to be as trigger happy lately. :laughing:

Hokke · January 19

First, let me say that I haven't had the occasion to use the downvote button, because my interpretation of it is likely different from others. That said, I am unaware of any rules specifically governing its use. That is to say no strict guidelines pertaining to how someone must "feel" in order to use it properly. As such, it would seem like the downvote button is a freedom afforded all who participate on this forum and every member has to right to use it according to their own individual interpretation of its meaning. This includes interpretations that others, perhaps even the majority, may find petty or pedantic.

I haven't seen any cartoons or animated projections on this site that would otherwise appeal to a juvenile mindset. This is one of the many things that I appreciate about this site specifically. As such, it would also indicate we are all adults here and if there are those among us who are incapable of having a downvote cast on a post without taking it "personally", then I would say there are much larger issues in play. Having said that, irony unignored, this post may be responsible for my very first downvote, perhaps cast out of spite, a trait that although commonly found in adults, is in itself childish. Be that as it may, I can assure you my sleep will be unencumbered were this to happen, because I CHOOSE to make it so. Those who appreciate what I say....great. Those who disapprove......great. That's how the world works.

So, how about we all take a deep breath and settle ourselves in the notion that we participate on this forum to contribute what we can and learn what we can. How that plays out to the masses, is on the masses and the very idea of trying to control it is quite futile.

Spartancrest · January 20

On 1/19/2025 at 10:05 PM, Hokke said:

I haven't seen any cartoons or animated projections on this site that would otherwise appeal to a juvenile mindset.

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Lets not go down that blackhole. :laughing: [oops too late!]

Way way :offtopic:

Winchester · January 21

To somewhat address your question OP: Yes, you can get a sense of a timeframe for tsuba based on factors such as design, subject and more.

50 years as you mentioned—for example—is realistic, while a specific year is likely not.

If you are seeking the fun of collecting including historical, societal or other factors in a tsuba…you can get fairly close. Note: this is a very simplified answer.