MORINOBU & KANENOBU

[Swords]

Hi I’m using the 2 swords as a reference 

My questions are how dose how long dose it take to forge each one I believe Tamahagane were used as well 

I know the forging process takes some time do to the many folds,heating process polish and wrapping of the tsuka

Maybe 1 week 2 or longer?  Because there was a war going on how did the Japanese find have this much time spent traditional sword such as these

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Singer]

Here are two books which give insight into the process and timelines. The latter for WWII production.

https://www.amazon.c...n-Kapp/dp/1568364318

 

https://www.Japanese...auty-by-tom-kishida/

[KungFooey]

Surely, it depends on whether they used a power hammer or traditional sakites?
If the latter, how many apprentices did they have? Was a sword a special commission or not?

 

All these factors would have affected production time.

[Bruce Pennington]

I recall reading that smiths were able to put out 8-10 swords per month.  Don't know details on how many apprentices or whether traditional or not.

[Swords]

Thanks Ray I  do have the craft of Japanese swords the process  i know . I will read to again

I know their were alot of variables to consider I was trying to get a ball park but I guess it’s hard to know 

but I do appreciate your input 

 

 

Steve

[Bruce Pennington]

Here, Trystan quotes a book on Yasukuni sword production: 

"In the chapter titled "CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF SWORDS PRODUCED" in The Yasukuni Swords, it is mentioned: "Nevertheless, Yasukuni smiths engaged in sword forging with maximum effort, always seeking to improve their techniques and produce the highest number of swords possible. They employed a sword forging method called 'makuri-gitae,' which is one of the relatively less time-consuming traditional methods, and it favored a hamon in suguha. This method seemed the most appropriate to the circumstances, and suited the forging of practical swords such as gunto."

 

It also mentions that "each smith produced about ten swords per month around 1935, and succeeded in increasing the monthly output to fifteen swords around 1940."

[Bruce Pennington]

George Trotter sited a book from 1994 that said RJT smiths were making 10 per month:

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thomas cited something about a single smith, with 2 apprentices that could make 5 per month:

 

[Swords]

Thanks Bruce and Fooey 😁That’s 5 years for 1941-1945 but they were making swords during the China war and before Taking that under consideration 10 per month times how many years?

[GeorgeLuucas]

Hi Steve, are you trying to determine how many swords MORINOBU and KANENOBU might have forged during their lifetimes? 

You could theoretically assume the amount of swords any particular smith could make during their career. But you could never determine how many of those swords were destroyed/lost during the conflict, and furthermore how many were destroyed after the war.

Maybe someday we'll have some rough numbers; if Bruce keeps cataloging  
All the best,
-Sam

[Swords]

Yes Thanks Bruce maybe we will get a better idea  on numbers or a rough one ?

Great information though 

 

 

 

[Swords]

Yes George I was trying to determine how long it would MORINOBU and KANENOBU but you would probably have to determine how many they made rather then than 

the number of traditional ones were produced   Which is probably hard to know 

[Bruce Pennington]

They were both RJT.  Considering the average - 10-15 per month - that's a sword every 2 to 3 days!  They must have had large teams working for them.

[Swords]

 

it makes sense considering how much time spent to make a good RJT sword 

 

 

 

[Swords]

Firstly I want to thank everyone for their help determining how long it takes to forge my swords I feel like a pebble compared to a boulder who are much more knowledgeable I am

I bought books  and discussing with others on the forum has helped but i know there’s much more to learn 

 

 

Thanks Steve 

 

 

[KungFooey]

If you are a pebble then I am a grain of sand Steve. 😂

I found that, in this hobby, anything which does not make us bankrupt makes us stronger!

 

Dee

[george trotter]

Interesting discussion...difficult to work out a smith's total for WWII but if he was a RJT he was supposed to forge 10 swords per month. Here are a couple of 'titbits' I have seen over the years:

 

First, on the question of 10 RJT swords per month...This figure was stated by the RJT smith Enomoto Sadayoshi and is quoted in 'The New Generation of Japanese Swordsmiths' by Tamio Tsuchiki pp.161-163.

 

Second, on this figure the actual production of the RJT smiiths Tsukamoto Masakazu and his brother Kasama (Tsukamoto) Kiyokazu of Koriyama City in Fukushima are given in the book "Rikugun Jumei Tosho no Shuen' 1 994 by Aizu Bunkazai Chosa Kenkyu Kai, Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima pp.58-59 as:
In the six months between 15 August 1944 - 26 Feb. 1945 Masakazu made 62 RJT swords and his brother Kiyokazu made 59.

Masakazu and Kiyokazu were invited to become RJT in Late 1942 (i.e. Nov-Dec) and probably did not receive RJT supplies until Jan 1943...By my calculation, this 10 blades per month  equates for Masakazu (whose pre-RJT) blade I have) of a total of of 315 RJT blades  for 1/1/1943-15/8/1945 which is the period he was RJT. 

 

This figure tallies with 'minimum' of 10 RJT blades per month for RJT smiths.

 

 

Hope this helps.

BTW...nice to have you with us Dee.

[KungFooey]

50 minutes ago, george trotter said:

BTW...nice to have you with us Dee.

Bless you, George!!!

[Swords]

Hi Dee Like George Welcome to the forum 

Lots of knowledgeable people here

The craft of the Japanese sword is a good starting point unless you already have one 

It pretty much explains the whole process of making a Japanese sword and isn’t it that expensive I would buy a higher end sword as the one you mentioned but I’m in the 2-3000 range unless it’s a good deal . I agree with George it’s a interesting discussion and it gave me the answer I was looking for and then some 

 

Steve