Best wishes for 2025 + your opinion on this blade.

[Pierre F]

I wish you all a wonderful year for 2025 ! (I hope the timing is still acceptable for this wishes)

 

As a good resolution, I would like to try to acquire my first blade. Well in fact I've been wanting this for almost 2 years... but as you know better than I do... there is so much to know... Well and then to search and learn, isn't that ultimately the real pleasure.

 

I'd like to have your comments about this sword ...

 

I voluntarily prefer not to say anything about it with a more "raw" opinion and spontaneous opinions.

 

Once again all the best for you all and your families.

 

Best regards,

 

[Alex A]

You don't need to say a lot more about, no doubt many here will know it from Aoi Art

 

Why do you like it?

[Pierre F]

I can't explain why I like it ....  It is old ...but dont look too old...I like the grain of the steel (for what I can see on pictures) , I like the fact that it has bo-hi.. the hamon look nice.

I can't really explain but this sword intrigues me. I don't know if I can say I like it... I just wanted your opinions on maybe why I shouldn't like it ;P

 

I can see it is not on the original shape and probably strongly shortened...In fact, you will undoubtedly see innumerable flaws... hence my question

[oli]

I would recommend to visit the Japan Artexpo in Utrecht 

 

[Lewis B]

Good eye. Lot to like there and if you can get it for around the starting bid you will be making an excellent 1st purchase, assuming it fits with your collecting aims. It has to speak to you and from what you say it appears to have made an impression.

Positives. NBTHK TH, obviously very healthy, characteristic Nanbokucho era sugata, very little kitae ware and in what appears to be good polish. Cherry on the cake is the very low registration number and date of Feb 1951 which means this was once owned by a Daimyo family. I would recommend you see if Tsuruta san can ask Tanobe sensei write a sayagaki. They are well worth the stipend IMHO. 

 

Oli makes a good suggestion too, but Koto blades were thin on the ground in 2024.

[Alex A]

Its a good blade and healthy and sturdy for its age. 

 

You have to like a blade to buy it and obviously know why you like it, if you don't know then don't buy it.

 

Have you read books?, learned for a while?. Learned to know what you like and why ?

 

Would bet most folks 1st sword purchase they later sell.

 

Also. you will get numerous opinions that are not your own. Personally, im not interested much in unsigned swords these days, would that opinion put you off?

 

If it does, your not ready to buy this sword.

 

Its only your own opinion that matters.

[nulldevice]

32 minutes ago, Pierre F said:

I can't explain why I like it ....  It is old ...but dont look too old...I like the grain of the steel (for what I can see on pictures) , I like the fact that it has bo-hi.. the hamon look nice.

I can't really explain but this sword intrigues me. I don't know if I can say I like it... I just wanted your opinions on maybe why I shouldn't like it ;P

 

I can see it is not on the original shape and probably strongly shortened...In fact, you will undoubtedly see innumerable flaws... hence my question

Looks like a nice sturdy sword. 
 

I’d wager the Bo-hi was added much later when the sword was cut down seeing how it doesn’t continue down into the nakago. 

[Lewis B]

2 minutes ago, nulldevice said:

 

I’d wager the Bo-hi was added much later when the sword was cut down seeing how it doesn’t continue down into the nakago. 

Agreed, but this shouldn't affect the desirability if its done well and there are no issues exposed, at least thats what I read and hear from Japanese collectors/dealers. It was likely done centuries ago.

[nulldevice]

15 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

Agreed, but this shouldn't affect the desirability if its done well and there are no issues exposed, at least thats what I read and hear from Japanese collectors/dealers. It was likely done centuries ago.

 

I agree, its just additional points to consider. I think it looks well done. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think it is a decent sword. It has an attribution to quite good smith who has very few signed tachi remaining. Honestly I cannot really tell Nanbokuchō Bizen smiths apart from work style. Personally I don't like the size of this as I would want something bigger if looking for a Nanbokuchō sword. For me that bo-hi would be a large negative in this case, just a personal preference.

 

This sword has been around, and it has been listed at several places. Last time was late November 2024 at Yahoo Auctions: https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/x1161730631

Still old sales are old sales and some time ago it was on eBay listed with asking price of c.15,000$.

 

I feel the current asking price that Aoi has is perfectly reasonable, just that for that amount of money I would look something else. However Motomitsu attributed swords do not pop up online that often and they are often highly appreciated.

[Pierre F]

Thank you for your good advices. I am not obviously convinced that I am ready to buy a sword. Claiming to have an affinity with this or that era/blacksmith would not be true. There are swords that I find beautiful and others less so... And it's not necessarily related to the price or reputation of its blacksmith. Shouldn't we have a sword in our hand to know it, appreciate it and study it?

 

There is no real desire to own. Simply the privilege of seeing a piece of history up close and for an extended period of time and asking questions and perhaps finding answers. A piece of history that would pass through my house and that would be restored having been preciously preserved. I think, after reading several books (not always the right ones) and spending a lot of time reading and watching, that I need to touch to continue my learning curve. But maybe I should go to Utrecht ;P

 

As a "conclusion", I would use the words from another "For me it is thinking about the romantic history behind them."

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

That's why signed swords are important to me, history, as in known history.

 

Not forever contemplating on "attributions"

 

As are wrong on occasion.

[Lewis B]

Signed early Koto swords are thin on the ground and often carry a very hefty price. Obviously if as a collector you're not fixated on Kamakura/Nanbo, which I am, then the options expand tremendously. 

[Alex A]

Correct Lewis.

 

You live within the realms you can afford.

 

Still plenty to go at.

[Pierre F]

Alex do you have reason to think attributions are often wrongs ? If it is the case I perfectly understand your arguments about known history.

 

Lewis... i will not say the older the better but in a way that's what I think ;P  but of course there is other factors.

[Alex A]

Hi Pierre

 

They are wrong on occasion. Sometimes you see a sword with two different attributions from two different organisations, sometimes the same organisation but different dates.

 

That's not my issue though, my issue lies around relying on attributions. I want to see an ubu TEXTBOOK sword with a mei to match.

 

Had my fair share of mumei swords, i dont like swords that still have questions that need answering or have me wondering which generation it is that made it.

 

Got a little pedantic lol

 

Im not saying i don't appreciate any good quality sword, i do, whether signed or not. Its what i can live with that matters.

 

People build different collecting habits, we are all different

 

You need to understand what you can live with, this will only come with time and experience.

[atm]

I noticed that sword, too, @Pierre F. Here is a signed Juyo for comparison: Motomitsu. I saw it at DTI last year. It is an impressive blade.

 

I think it is interesting that despite these two swords from the same smith being relatively similar in their current dimensions, one is signed and dated and the other is mumei. And there is a 6M yen difference in their prices.

 

I think it is hard to pick out a first blade without seeing them in person. The way a blade feels when held says a lot, in my opinion, in addition to being able to better see its features. A sword show is a great way to do that.

[Pierre F]

Just saw your answer Jussi, Thank you for these informations.

 

I believe this  "comparable" sword should be better in all aspects except the ... price ;P

 

Alex, your experience and " travel" in the nohinto area, let you think what you think. And obviously you are right. We all learn in different ways...often with mistakes but most important, we lean about ourselves and what we can live with or not...I dont see nothing pedantic but simply the experience of shaping your tastes/sensitivity and knowing yourself.

 

So my problem is i dont have your experience (this is the main reason l’m on this forum) and I dont shape my "taste".

 

If a "perfect" objectivity exist... is it very very hopeful that we are all different ;P

 

 

 

[Alex A]

Pierre, 

 

I collect other stuff and im often clueless, Your doing the right thing asking here, that's what i do with stuff i know little about.

 

You have already learned something today, id say a lot.

 

Good to see someone ask before, rather than after a purchase, where often they have made a mistake.

 

Look through dealer websites and get to know what appeals. Age, hamon, hada, sugata etc etc etc.

 

Take some time, then im sure you will buy something you like.

 

Also, as mentioned above, look at swords in hand if you can, though know its not easy for many.

[Pierre F]

Thank you Adam ..il is very interesting...

 

Many thanks for all your answers.

I'm convinced ... i need to see more blades ;P if i can i will go to Utrecht in June...

 

I wish you a nice evening and once again a great year to all of you !

[PNSSHOGUN]

The registration date is not conclusive proof a sword was owned by a Daimyo family. Registration was open to everyone early on. This is a point greatly exaggerated by dealers. 

[Pierre F]

Thanks John for the information... i didn't know about it.

 

 

[Lewis B]

7 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The registration date is not conclusive proof a sword was owned by a Daimyo family. Registration was open to everyone early on. This is a point greatly exaggerated by dealers. 

I stand corrected, thank you John. A good case of dogma benefitting retailers. Heck, even some well regarded dealers use and perpetuate this as a selling point if it suits them.

I found this excerpt from Nihontocraft that makes perfect sense as to why Daimyo and Shrine blades are overwhelming represented in the early Torokusho paper registrations.

 

Q: Are blades with a Torokusho date of Showa 26 (1951) ones that came from top Daimyo collections? I have heard that only the treasured items like Masamune, Ichimonji, Sanjo Munechika, Awataguchi, Rai etc... from only old important families were invited / allowed to get registered in Showa 26 - 27. 

You are asking about the phrase of so-called "Daimyo/Kazoku" Torokusho registration some dealers/collectors like to use. This registration was based on the Culture Property Protection Law. Any swords that had artistic value could be registered. Even gimei and blades with any kind of kizu could be registered. This was not a shinsa. The fee was 230 Yen. This was established on Nov. 15 of Showa 25 and executed on Dec. 1, Showa 25. 

There is the factor that people in "the know" and in charge of important collections, would have been more aware of this new law than others and quick to react. But there is no evidence of special or private access. Please remember that at this time in sword history the total destruction of Nihonto was just barely avoided. Regular class people with regular class family treasures wanted them to be protected just as much as Shrines and Daimyos. Please see the collection of Showa 26 registration cards here (below). These are all regular class items. Yes, there were many meibutsu Daimyo/Shrine blades registered in 1951 but these years were not times when blades of that level were exclusively invited or permitted. 

[Pierre F]

Thanks Lewis. The article and your comments are clear.