A Goto school horse menuki with a Fake signature, interesting?

[Jack Zacao]

Hello everyone,

 

I am a new member here and this is my first post.

 

I recently came across a menuki repurposed as a tobacco pouch clasp, which is common in Meiji period. The design is very common and typical Goto school I would say. However, the metal work is exquisite compared to some other horse menuki I have seen. Upon close inspection I found it is actually signed on the side. The signature says "光乘" who is the fourth master of Goto main family line. Further research tells me that the pieces are normally not signed before the fifth generation of Goto family. Does it mean this is a fake signature and/or a fake piece. Any thoughts? 

 

I appreciate your comment and insight.

 

Here is the piece

 

[Jack Zacao]

Here is the signature and back.

[Brian]

Quality is good. Although I'm not qualified to say, I think it has a chance of being shoshin. Also this is a fairly unusual case of it actually being made as a menuki first, not just being a menuki-style ornament.

[Jack Zacao]

Thank you for your comment. The tobacco pouch and pipe case also are of very high quality which makes me believe it might be made early masters of Goto family but signed by later generations to certify it. It is common on kozukas but not Menuki due to the size. I forgot to mention the size is just over 1 and 1/4 inch which is typical.  
 

The practice of using genuine Menuki as pouch clasp can be found on high end products. Below is an example I found：
https://www.bonhams....8-late-19th-century/

 

the rooster is one out of the typical pair of Menuki with rooster and hen designs.

[Charlie C]

Looks like a beautiful piece!

 

However, 桑原羊次郎 proposed that the first person in the Goto family to add mei on menuki was 徳乗. Maybe there is newer research out there...

[Jake6500]

I am not a Goto school expert by any means (or an expert at all) but as a general rule menuki are not often signed. You sometimes see signatures on the backs with inserted metal plates or sometimes on the sides as in this example, but mei on menuki are less common than on tsuba, kozuka or fuchigashira and it is usually only your mid to high quality menuki that got signed.

 

In my opinion signatures on menuki are therefore more trustworthy on average than say fuchigashira, where there are gimei floating around all over the place.

 

All this is to say that if you have a decent quality menuki with a signature on it, especially when that signature is a tiny detail on the side of the piece like this, the chance of the signature being shoshin is higher, relatively speaking. I concur with Brian, though I would like to see what someone more versed with the Goto school thinks...

 

Regarding the reuse of the menuki, this was a fairly common practice. I once saw a Meiji period wooden drawer being sold on Jauce that featured an authentic, signed menuki on it (I can't remember whether it was Ishiguro or Ichinomiya). The practice was more common with pouches like yours.

 

 

 

 

[Curran]

You can tell a lot from the central peg and the walls of the backside of a menuki.

 

My first impression is that the back of the menuki doesn't look consistent with Goto Kojo work.

I will try to remember to look more later today.

 

It is a nice menuki where I think 'authentic' vs 'gimei' doesn't matter much.

My gut says 'Goto' much later in the school, with a spurious mei added later.