Souljah Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 I just won an auction of my first tsuba today and would like to know if my guessing is right. I did some research and I think that its Hotei guiding a child through darkness, but as I am totally uneducated on this kind of stuff, I would like to know if there's some other story behind it. The writing on the right says "Child with opened eyes" or "open your eyes", at least that's what Google translate says. Thx. 2 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 Child helping a heavily treasure laden Hotei cross a river under a full moon. Not sure if it’s a specific story. 1 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 3 Author Report Posted January 3 That makes more sense, because of the child being in front of Hotei. I've found this picture of hotai carrying a child through a river. And an other picture with the writing "The eye that regards the innocent child / is a friendly soul outside this soiled world" 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 Information on the theme and other examples of tsuba found here: 1 Quote
SteveM Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 3 hours ago, Souljah said: The writing on the right says "Child with opened eyes" or "open your eyes", at least that's what Google translate says. 開眼子 (literally, "child with opened eyes") is the "art name" of the artist, Kanezui. The use of "child" in the art name, and the image of the child on the tsuba, is coincidental. The theme of Hotei with a child (particularly, a child in Chinese dress from the Tang dynasty) is an often-used motif. You can find other examples if you search for Hotei with Tang-dynasty Child (布袋唐子). I don't know the meaning or the origin (well, I guess the origin is Tang China). 1 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 3 Author Report Posted January 3 Thx to all. Interesting to see other examples of this motif on different tsuba and the thing with his nickname. Haven't found that. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 Steve, it is possible that the tsuba-ko made this his art name in homage to Hotei’s child. Quote
Stephen Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 My interpretation: Hotei showing the child choices in life, the boat in the seven gods of luck, (I forgot the name of the boat dang it) its the child's decision on which path to take. In the boat. The Seven Gods of Luck, or Shichifukujin, are often depicted on a New Year's Treasure Ship: The seven gods are: Ebisu: The god of fishing, agriculture, and trade, and the only deity with Shinto origins among the Shichifukujin. Bishamonten: A protector of the righteous, and one of the Four Heavenly Kings in Buddhism. Daikokuten: Based on both the Shinto deity Ōkuninushi-no-Mikoto and the Hindu deity Shiva. Fukurokuju: The god of wisdom, luck, longevity, wealth, and happiness. Benzaiten: The goddess of literature, music, and femininity, and the only goddess among the Shichifukujin. Jurōjin: The god of longevity and wisdom, often depicted with a stag at his side. Hotei: Also known as Budai, the god of happiness and abundance, often depicted as a Buddhist monk with a prominent belly. 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 5 Author Report Posted January 5 Any opinion if this is genuine hamano kenzui (2nd generation hamano) or gimei? It's too late anyway, but I would like to know. Quote
Geraint Posted January 5 Report Posted January 5 Dear Michael. Please bear in mind that I know nothing. When I first saw this I was worried by the treatment of the cloud over the face of the moon, given that one might expect the cloud to be dark/shakudo rather than silver. On reflection I find the textured treatment of the other side rather stiff and uninspired. Also the face of Hotei and the child...... Just not sure about this one. Hope to be wrong in every regard. All the best. 1 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 6 Author Report Posted January 6 Thx, every opinion is welcome and appreciated. Edit: Actually we have a cloudy evening, it's already dark and I've taken a photo of the moon. I think it depends on the clouds, as you can see, that the moon is fully visible through the clouds. Everything is dark and the clouds are not that thick, so the moon shines through and makes the clouds in front of it "invisible". But that's only one of your concerns... Any opinion on the Mei? 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 Some older threads here with discussion of the mei 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 Hello Dale, thx for your help. I lack of knowledge and experience in comparing Mei, but If I try to, it looks like same characters, but a little difference in the strokes and their direction. So I assume it's gimei. Am I right? Are there any other hints where my tsuba came from? Any opinion on it? Thx so much. Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 Michael, I think you are correct….gimei. With Kinko tsuba I always first look at the quality of the work and that alone will tell you if it is by someone really good, and sadly this tsuba is not of that quality. A lot of work has gone into it but the refinement and artistry is clumsy especially as mentioned earlier the faces and the way the moon is done. It is very common to find “tribute” signatures of famous makers on mixed metal tsuba. Personally that never worries me if the quality is good enough (depending of course on the price)…..some carrying tribute (or fake to be blunt) signatures can still be staggering quality and that alone can justify purchase…..imo! 2 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 I guess that the only way is to educate myself. Hopefully I'm gonna learn from my mistake. I still like the tsuba and am exited for it to arrive, but I admit being a little disappointed about it. Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Souljah said: I still like the tsuba and am exited for it to arrive Good enough reason. I think we often forget one thing - could you pay anyone to make you another for the price you paid? I very very much doubt it. The purists will say it is a waste of money [true if it was a cast piece] but a good copy is still a GOOD COPY and would have taken a lot of work. JMHO PS. I found the auction price - a bit of a gutsy first buy! Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Spartancrest said: ... PS. I found the auction price - a bit of a gutsy first buy! Yeah, I got a little too excited... Hopefully lesson learned. 1 Quote
KungFooey Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 58 minutes ago, Spartancrest said: ... a waste of money [true if it was a cast piece] I'm waiting for the inevitable protest. But I totally agree with Dale. Whenever you end up with something which isn't entirely as you expected but you can still admire, think of the work that went into making it (and what a craftsman would charge to make it from scratch). Your tsuba is beautiful - end of story! Love Dee 1 1 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 Thx for your kind words. It cought my eyes, because it was totally different than all the other tsuba I've seen. That's what I liked. 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 Michael, to train your eye I would suggest (as I often do) that you go onto Bonhams website, search “tsuba” and click on “past lots”. Spend some time (better if it’s a lot of time) looking and learning….you will see hundreds of tsuba together with their sold prices including buyers premium. Enlarge the images, study the detail and the aesthetics. Many are sold in multiple lots so take that into account. You will start to get a feeling for comparative values. That will be far informative than looking at a few images in a few books (which give no idea re value) Look for those that hint at gimei…..”attributed to” “school of” etc….but you will see they can still make big money. If your taste is for Kinko tsuba then it’s doubly important that you can tell bad from nice from good from amazing….because the different in values is equally staggering. 1 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 Already studying the Bonhams and Zacke websites since days and there are some amazing pieces. Quote
Souljah Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Matsunoki said: ... Look for those that hint at gimei…..”attributed to” “school of” etc….but you will see they can still make big money. That's an interesting point, that they sell Gimei. Didn't think about that. Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 Just now, Souljah said: That's an interesting point, that they sell Gimei. Didn't think about that. All auction houses will sell gimei tsuba, blades, Fuchi kashira etc. Some do it knowingly and tell us, some do it knowingly and don’t tell us, some don’t know what the heck they are doing and just sell anything! Be wary and don’t rely on what they say. 1 2 1 Quote
Jake6500 Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 I think the stiffness of the design on this tsuba is particularly apparent in the design of Hotei. The linework just doesn't feel very natural. Often times human outlines or faces can be a good indicator of overall quality when you are trying to judge the craftmanship of a piece. The mei is also a bit of a giveaway here. There is too much deviation from the confirmed examples. My profile picture is of a kashira signed "Hamano Shozui". Whilst it is also likely gimei, I think the qualitative difference in the linework between your Hotei tsuba and this Tengu piece should give you an idea of what I'm referring to. Here are some other examples, this tsuba is signed "Toshinao" and is authentic: This next one is Hamano Noriyuki: Still, you got a tsuba with a nice cultural design to enjoy which is always a plus! 1 Quote
cluckdaddy76 Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 I have also found studying pieces for sale from higher end dealers (start with Ginza Seiyudo) is also a great way to learn. Be careful with current auctions even from high end auction houses as they do make mistakes but past auctions from them should also be a good resource as previously mentioned. This piece caught my eye at first too as I did see it in the auction, but I had hesitations on it. I only started to purchase recently myself but was lucky enough to come into a larger collection all at once. I studied for more than a year and a half before attempting to make a purchase. My rule on auctions is to not get caught up, evaluate the piece and set your top price. Stay strong and do not get caught up in the passion of bidding at the end. Still a nice piece even if gimei so congrats!!! 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 12 hours ago, Matsunoki said: Be wary and don’t rely on what they say. Auction houses are set up to sell - they are not set up to tell the truth! [Goes for some dealers as well.] https://www.invaluab...id--213-c-0da4a4da60 Chinese fake https://www.invaluab...ment-28-c-ce04cad953 Chinese fake https://www.invaluab...uba-401-c-ab54368bf3 check the injection molding marks on the seppa-dai. https://www.invaluab...ub-6737-c-01b49a688e tried to hide it upside down! Even right side up it is a cast mass produced fake! https://www.japankat.../tsuba/tsuba_094.htm 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 10 hours ago, Jake6500 said: Here are some other examples, this tsuba is signed "Toshinao" and is authentic: The one you show here is now mine again…..link to when I put it on the forum…..the reverse is lovely imo. 2 1 Quote
Souljah Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 Does anyone have a picture of a tsuba made by Kenzui? Really hard to find something. Does anybody have a recommendation for a book about the Hamano school? Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 https://onlineonly.c...t-iron-tsuba-8/12092 Signed Kenzui, Meiji period (late 19th century) The russet iron tsuba finely carved with a bat in high relief beneath a silver crescent moon with drifting clouds applied with gold, on the reverse a willow carved in sunken relief beside a meandering stream in silver inlay 3 in. (7.62 cm.) http://emuseum.toled...7-b7a33cf03a67&idx=0 1 Quote
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