GENDITO OR NOT

[mizuta]

I HAVE A KATANA THAT PASSED NTHK KANTEISHO AS DEN HORII TOSHIHIDE MEIJI PERIOD .WOULD THIS BE SHINSHINTO OR GENDITO ? BEFORE SHINSA I THOUGH IT WAS KOTO BIZEN !

[John A Stuart]

Shinshinto. John

[David Flynn]

Shin Shinto only lasted the first few years of Meiji. After 1876, Gendaito

[Bazza]

  David Flynn said:

Shin Shinto only lasted the first few years of Meiji. After 1876, Gendaito

David,

I believe the Japanese consider some swords made even after 1876 to be Shinshinto. The Shinshinto Taikan illustrates such swords made well into the 20th century. I'm guessing (because I can't read Japanese fluently) that that is why they are included in the Taikan???

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

[Nobody]

Ref. http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index. ... ese_Swords

[John A Stuart]

He is listed as a shinshinto smith, but, I'll not argue the point of definition. Here is some info refering to him as a gendai smith. Good info on him.

http://www.masterforge.co.uk/acatalog/G ... deaki.html

John

[Takahashi]

Although this is not my thread I have to thank Nobody for the wiki.samurai-archives link. I did not know there was something like this on the net. It is very helpful.

 

Cheers

[Jacques]

  Bazza said:

  David Flynn said:

Shin Shinto only lasted the first few years of Meiji. After 1876, Gendaito

David,

I believe the Japanese consider some swords made even after 1876 to be Shinshinto. The Shinshinto Taikan illustrates such swords made well into the 20th century. I'm guessing (because I can't read Japanese fluently) that that is why they are included in the Taikan???

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

 

 

In the Shinshinto taikan (vol. 2) it is clearly spoken of Gendaito (see chapter title page 231).

[doug e lewis]

I just read on Nihonto Kanji Pages - Tosogu Kanteisho, i believe, that the Gendito period began in 1868.

 

guess there is some leeway among the authorites that define such hard to delineate time periods [unlike the rise and fall of shogunates, whose dates are usually easy to define] :|

 

by the by -- like your web site, John.

 

doug e

[John A Stuart]

Thanks Doug, I find the appelation of gendaito somewhat of a misnomer, meaning modern sword. Smiths who made swords prior to !868/76 and after would still be shinshinto smiths, yes? In fact some references group shinshinto smiths within the shinto period. Hideaki/ Toshihide born after this time could be considered a Showa smith since a lot of his work was in that period. Toko Taikan has him listed as shinshinto. Fujishiro Shinto Hen has him included thus;

TOSHIHIDE HORII [sHÔWA 1926 MURORAN]

He is the son of Horii Taneaki. He changed his name to KANEAKI in Meiji Sanjûhachinen Gogatsu, to HIDEAKI in Taishô Ninen Shigatsu, and also signed the single kanji "HIDE". He finally changed his name to TOSHIHIDE in Shôwa Hachinen. He forged swords at Muroran Steel Works, and is especially skilled in nie-tsuki choji ha.

Signatures: ZUISEN HORII TOSHIHIDE

MINAMOTO TOSHIHIDE

ÔMI KUNI SHIGA TARÔ MINAMOTO TOSHIHIDE SAKU

His father produced swords in the Meiji period, shinshinto or gendaito? I would prefer gendaito to refer to swords made in the western style during Japan's modernisation of it's military. That is just my preference though. and means nothing.

TANEAKI ÔMI [MEIJI 1868 TOKYO] SHINSHINTÔ CHÛJÔSAKU

He is a nephew of Taneyoshi, has the same style as that of Taneyoshi, and is the father of Horii Toshihide.

Signatures: OITE TÔTO ÔMI KUNI TANEAKI SAKU, [TN]

ÔMI NO SUKE MINAMOTO TANEAKI TSUKURU KORE

John

[doug e lewis]

Hi John,

 

obviously Nobody got the site where i believe i saw the 1868 Gendito date. great site to wander in.

 

your knowledge of nihonto is amazing, and i know you do it all off the top of your head, without consulting any books, etc. a project i have is to learn to read kanji [and even speak Japanese beyond simple sushi bar or dojo words and phases]

 

you mention the smith in question as working in "western style" . i know that different irons and alloys were tried, but is there a way of constructing the sword, or hamon, etc, that can be identified as being significantly "western" ? this my be your personal term, but .. you know what i mean.

 

and there is the term shinsakudo for post 1953 [i think] swords.

 

thank you for the continued flow of information.

 

doug e

[John A Stuart]

Hi Doug, I wish. I am just a sandal bearer and my teaspoon of knowlege perhaps just enough to get me in trouble. There are giants among us and I'm not one of them. That is why I like this forum and always have something to learn here. Back to the FA Cup. John

[mizuta]

this blade does not look like showa type swords .long sword large curve choji hamon bohi sture hi going right to eng of nakago.Nakago very rusty so no mei. I will up load a picture later