Latest acquisition

[KungFooey]

And, as usual, I know very little about it apart from at least it's not cast this time.

 

These are the photos I just got from my brother (as he gets all the stuff I bid on In Japan). Based on the pictures, there's only a little rusting but there are a couple of strange random blobs of what looks like copper or brass 😳.

 

I got it because I liked the shape, the forging structure throughout the steel and the sunburst pattern lightly engraved on both sides.

Dimensions are: height 78mm, width 72mm, thickness at mimi 3.2mm, thickness at seppadai 3mm.

 

Any thoughts on school or time period (looks like late Edo to me) will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks!

 

Edited Monday at 02:40 AM by KungFooey
More photos

[GeorgeLuucas]

Hi Dee,

I cannot help with era or school, but I do like your Tsuba! 

It appears to have nice color, and fine AMIDA YASURI (radiating lines); and I like the rectangular Hitsu Ana. Those copper punch spots look interesting, I wonder why they are there.

Congrats, looks like theres a lot to enjoy there!
I am surprised more members haven't weighed in. 
Happy Holidays and new year,
-Sam 

[Shugyosha]

I don’t like talking down items but I’m not sure it isn’t modern (Sorry Dee!). The rectangular hitsu ana is unusual and both this and the nakago ana seem quite crudely done and it doesn’t look like it has been fitted to a blade as there’s no tagane or seki gane.
 

Also, I’m not sure I’m not seeing a mix of metals there with some copper either in the plate or in whatever has been used to patinate it and that isn’t something I’ve seen before and I’m inclined to think it’s a recent hobbyist’s piece - apologies again. 
 

I’m hoping you’ll now post the papers and prove me an idiot or at least that someone else will chip in with a counter argument. 

[KungFooey]

6 hours ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

Hi Dee,

I cannot help with era or school, but I do like your Tsuba! 

It appears to have nice color, and fine AMIDA YASURI (radiating lines); and I like the rectangular Hitsu Ana. Those copper punch spots look interesting, I wonder why they are there.

Congrats, looks like theres a lot to enjoy there!
I am surprised more members haven't weighed in. 
Happy Holidays and new year,
-Sam 

Thank you Sam!

I truly hope it's as nice as we both think it is but I also respect John's comments below.

 

I'll show you more when I get it in hand. 😊

 

Dee

[Spartancrest]

I am intrigued by the pock marks and indents - plus the copper(?) remnants. I was wondering if it had been decorated with gomoku-zogan at one stage and that had failed or worn off? Not all gomoku takes up all the surface of the guard and with the amida yasuri the maker would not have wanted to cover all that up - but it would make a nice background - just speculation 

[KungFooey]

6 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

I don’t like talking down items but I’m not sure it isn’t modern (Sorry Dee!). The rectangular hitsu ana is unusual and both this and the nakago ana seem quite crudely done and it doesn’t look like it has been fitted to a blade as there’s no tagane or seki gane.
 

Also, I’m not sure I’m not seeing a mix of metals there with some copper either in the plate or in whatever has been used to patinate it and that isn’t something I’ve seen before and I’m inclined to think it’s a recent hobbyist’s piece - apologies again. 
 

I’m hoping you’ll now post the papers and prove me an idiot or at least that someone else will chip in with a counter argument. 

Hi John,

The thing I most respect is honesty - so thank you!
The fact your comment got two 'likes' shows two folks agreed with you but were maybe scared of offending me.

I say "Let it rip guys!" I'm not some 'delicate flower' looking for flattery - quite the opposite in fact! 😂

 

If I mess up (like the cast tsuba), I immediately admit it, laugh about it, hopefully learn from it and move on.

If I believe I've made a good choice, based on research and logic (like the Akao Yoshitsugu), I'll fight my ground and, if necessary, use the NBTHK as a last resort. 
 

This one? I just like it whatever it is.

It's made from a non-homogenous forged plate with very delicate, linear engraving and well shaped mimi. And I think the cutting of the two holes looks just fine.

 

But thanks again!!!

Dee

[KungFooey]

10 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

I am intrigued by the pock marks and indents - plus the copper(?) remnants. I was wondering if it had been decorated with gomoku-zogan at one stage and that had failed or worn off? Not all gomoku takes up all the surface of the guard and with the amida yasuri the maker would not have wanted to cover all that up - but it would make a nice background - just speculation 

Hey Dale!!!

I was hoping you'd chime in!

 

Yeah, those 'drops' of brass or copper are weird - almost like they were on the anvil as the maker was beating the hot steel and got stuck on the surface. In the seller's photos I thought they were blobs of rust.

Your theory is a real possibility.

 

Thanks as always!

Dee

[GeorgeLuucas]

Admittedly, I am one of those likes on John’s post. I liked his comment because I respect his opinion and insights. He’s far more experienced than I am, and I often learn from his contributions here. 

I still agree with my first comment though, because my initial reaction was a fondness for your tsuba - regardless of its age. 
 

All the best,

-Sam 

[Shugyosha]

Thank you for the kind words Sam.

 

There's a Heinjo/ Onin style tsuba with a rectangular hitsu ana on this page of the Varshavsky collection. https://varshavskyco...tion.com/onin-tsuba/ so perhaps it isn't so unusual.

 

It did occur to me that the tsuba might have originally had some Heianjo-style decoration done in copper that had been lost or that the copper is the remnants of a means of fixing another design element to the plate but that has now been lost but I'm guessing.

 

Dee, would you mind sharing the seller's description of the item?

 

 

[Matsunoki]

Looking again…..think it is old after all. There are clear signs of it being mounted….seppa “halo” and definite wear to the Amida rays within the seppadai. The shape is subtle and appealing and the thin rim appears to be well made. It’s the odd, dare I say ugly ana that sent me off down the wrong path first time round. There are also suggestions that it once had raised carving….traces of a rocky outcrop??…..so I wonder if it’s an old plate that has been reworked?

Just some musings.

[ROKUJURO]

Deanne,

Looking at the last photo, I am seeing the AMIDA rays stopping at the fine UCHIKAESHI MIMI. There is no final 'cleaning' of the burrs, if I am correct. The rectangular HITSU is not at all unusual in older TSUBA, but in this case it is too big, I think. Just a feeling!

My guess is that a later artist (MEIJI or later?) used old iron and traditional techniques to produce this TSUBA as a kind of UTSUSHI. Pounding some copper into the surface might have seemed to him to enhance an "old" look.

I am missing some wear on this TSUBA if it were EDO JIDAI, but in the end, I am only commenting photos and may be very wrong.

Please let us know your impression when you have it! 

[Spartancrest]

16 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

I wonder if it’s an old plate that has been reworked?

This is a totally different tsuba design but I can't help seeing basically plain tsuba that have been "dressed up" at a later time with varying success.

 

This still remains a possibility with the original amida-yasuri tsuba in the first post. [Or the smith did hammer his work on an anvil he didn't clean up scrap metal from, as Dee has suggested ]

[KungFooey]

On 12/24/2024 at 7:18 PM, Shugyosha said:

Thank you for the kind words Sam.

 

There's a Heinjo/ Onin style tsuba with a rectangular hitsu ana on this page of the Varshavsky collection. https://varshavskyco...tion.com/onin-tsuba/ so perhaps it isn't so unusual.

 

It did occur to me that the tsuba might have originally had some Heianjo-style decoration done in copper that had been lost or that the copper is the remnants of a means of fixing another design element to the plate but that has now been lost but I'm guessing.

 

Dee, would you mind sharing the seller's description of the item?

 

 

Hi John,

The seller only gave the dimensions, said it had a "good tone" and mentioned the Amida rays - nothing very helpful. 😥

But many thanks for your comments!

Dee

[KungFooey]

On 12/24/2024 at 8:11 PM, Matsunoki said:

Looking again…..think it is old after all. There are clear signs of it being mounted….seppa “halo” and definite wear to the Amida rays within the seppadai. The shape is subtle and appealing and the thin rim appears to be well made. It’s the odd, dare I say ugly ana that sent me off down the wrong path first time round. There are also suggestions that it once had raised carving….traces of a rocky outcrop??…..so I wonder if it’s an old plate that has been reworked?

Just some musings.

Hey Colin!

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the age - your musings are most welcome!

Dee

[KungFooey]

On 12/24/2024 at 8:57 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Deanne,

Looking at the last photo, I am seeing the AMIDA rays stopping at the fine UCHIKAESHI MIMI. There is no final 'cleaning' of the burrs, if I am correct. The rectangular HITSU is not at all unusual in older TSUBA, but in this case it is too big, I think. Just a feeling!

My guess is that a later artist (MEIJI or later?) used old iron and traditional techniques to produce this TSUBA as a kind of UTSUSHI. Pounding some copper into the surface might have seemed to him to enhance an "old" look.

I am missing some wear on this TSUBA if it were EDO JIDAI, but in the end, I am only commenting photos and may be very wrong.

Please let us know your impression when you have it! 

Hi Jean!

I also greatly respect your opinion and that may well be a very plausible explanation!

Should get in hand in the next week. 🙏

Thank you!

Dee

[KungFooey]

22 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

This is a totally different tsuba design but I can't help seeing basically plain tsuba that have been "dressed up" at a later time with varying success.

 

This still remains a possibility with the original amida-yasuri tsuba in the first post. [Or the smith did hammer his work on an anvil he didn't clean up scrap metal from, as Dee has suggested ]

Hey Dale!

Always love your contributions!

Yeah, I still think it's a messy, untidy tsuba maker with a dirty anvil! 😂

(Didn't have a wife obviously!)

Thanks!

Dee

[KungFooey]

By the way guys, if you're wondering why every single one of my comments is getting a down vote now, it's because of @Dan tsuba being super pathetic. 🙄

I pointed out that the book he self published on Amazon (which may or may not contain references to this board,  thread content or contributors - we'll never know because no-one has actually bought a copy🤣) had been reviewed by himself under a false name. (He gave himself a five star review, no less!)

 

Now downvoting me is his Dr. Evil Lite masterplan for revenge - "Bwahahahahaha!"

[Spartancrest]

14 minutes ago, KungFooey said:

(Didn't have a wife obviously!)

There were a few FEMALE tsubaco getting about!  [may not have had a Husband ]

[KungFooey]

1 minute ago, Spartancrest said:

There were a few FEMALE tsubaco getting about!  [may not have had a Husband ]

Sorry Dale! I was being sexist!! 🤣

[zanilu]

9 hours ago, KungFooey said:

By the way guys, if you're wondering why every single one of my comments is getting a down vote now, it's because of @Dan tsuba being super pathetic. 🙄

Non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa...

 

Do not worry Dee 

[KungFooey]

43 minutes ago, zanilu said:

Non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa...

 

Do not worry Dee 

Many thanks, Luca!

[Brian]

Last warning. Get back on track, this isn't a sparring ring. Last 5 personal and off topic posts have been deleted. Can we NOT go into 2025 like this?

[KungFooey]

7 minutes ago, Brian said:

Last warning. Get back on track, this isn't a sparring ring. Last 5 personal and off topic posts have been deleted. Can we NOT go into 2025 like this?

I'm real sorry Brian - I apologize.

 

But, as an admin, isn't there some way you can stop Dan putting a down vote on every single comment I make on any thread?

 

Dee

[Brian]

Nope, and why does it bother you? This isn't a popularity contest and there are no prizes for the most popular topics/posts/people.
Just ignore it. I don't even look who posts downvotes, and I'm sure most don't bother either. Let's leave the worrying about votes to TikTok and Facebook.

[KungFooey]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

Nope, and why does it bother you? This isn't a popularity contest and there are no prizes for the most popular topics/posts/people.
Just ignore it. I don't even look who posts downvotes, and I'm sure most don't bother either. Let's leave the worrying about votes to TikTok and Facebook.

OK. 

[KungFooey]

4 hours ago, Brian said:

I don't even look who posts downvotes, 

You also don't seem to look when someone is trying to help you find something you've listed in 'Want To Buy'.

[KungFooey]

I also apologize to Dan.

I now accept his theory that cast tsuba were made in the Edo Period and almost certainly worn by samurai.

m(_ _)m

 

[Brian]

20 minutes ago, KungFooey said:

You also don't seem to look when someone is trying to help you find something you've listed in 'Want To Buy'.

I'm still in pain after the surgery weeks ago, and spend half the day in bed. Just sitting at this pc taking care of forum stuff hurts...a lot.

[KungFooey]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

I'm still in pain after the surgery weeks ago, and spend half the day in bed. Just sitting at this pc taking care of forum stuff hurts...a lot.

I'm real sorry! I knew you'd been looking for months and it was the first set I'd seen - with about 2 hours to go!

I thought you'd want them but miss them so I was getting stressed out on your behalf!

Please take care of your health and I'll try not to rock the boat again. ❤️