Micro Tanto

[Tcat]

Just for fun, here is a micro tanto. I havn't yet seen one so detailed and wonder about its origins.

 

[Stephen]

Wow I didn't realize the scale until I seen it in your hand that's really well done

[Brian]

Wow...that's stunning.

[Tcat]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

your hand

 

Not my hand and I'm not the owner, I know nothing about it other than the photos. They were shared with no text on a WeChat blades magazine channel I'm subscribed to.

[Matsunoki]

Looks like a  £10k+ late Edo/Meiji aikuchi ….until the last image. Never seen anything like it. It’s not a photoshop jobbie is it? ie faked to look smaller. 

[Lewis B]

Reminds me of an apprentice piece. Super cute and looks well made. 

[Matsunoki]

Never seen an apprentice piece of that astounding quality. Actually never seen an apprentice Koshirae at all. That’s serious metalwork…… difficult to believe a beginner made that. 

[Michaelr]

Beautiful  

 MikeR 

[Lewis B]

Even the horimono is exquisite. Far better than some full size carvings. A complete tour de force. I would love to know the story and why such a minute piece was created, mimicking its normal sized siblings in every detail and construction. I've certainly not seen another. 

[Tcat]

6 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

It’s not a photoshop jobbie is it?

 

It’s real. Thought it was worth the share. Trying to find out some more info.

[Rivkin]

This one is Meiji so the purpose might be unclear (decorative), but I've seen quality netsuke which were miniature and semi-functional swords.

Sometimes dolls also have neat swords.

[Bruce Pennington]

Even an 8 petal Kiku mon on the habaki!

[The Forest Ninja]

Was thinking about forging a tiny Sword someday and that looks cool. 

[uwe]

22 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Even an 8 petal Kiku mon on the habaki!

Not Kiku, Bruce, but “Kyū-Mon” (or hoshi ). Can’t tell if Hosokawa-kyū, Kokumochi-kyū or Maru ni kyū, though…

 

Very cool Tanto, indeed 👍

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, uwe said:

Kyū-Mon” (or hoshi

Forgive my ignorance, but all I know about "Kyu" is it means "old" as in Kyu-gunto vs Shin (new)-gunto.  

Does this mean something else?

[uwe]

You are not ignorant, Bruce…it wasn’t meant that way 🙇🏻‍♂️
In the contrary, your question is legitimate! This Mon is made up of “stars” (星 - hoshi), but mentioned in some references (simplified) as kyū = 9 (九), because it is made up of nine of such stars. Other sources name it as “九曜” = nine suns… You see, it can become complicated…

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, uwe said:

You are not ignorant, Bruce…it wasn’t meant that way 🙇🏻‍♂️
In the contrary, your question is legitimate! This Mon is made up of “stars” (星 - hoshi), but mentioned in some references (simplified) as kyū = 9 (九), because it is made up of nine of such stars. Other sources name it as “九曜” = nine suns… You see, it can become complicated…

Excellent, thanks!  

BTW, I use the term in the most academic sense - that I am totally uneducated about so-and-so - ignorant of needed knowledge.  

 

 

[uwe]

There is so much to learn out there. I’m afraid one life is not enough…

Trying to understand and learn about “Mon” since many years…but seems I merely scratched surface 🫤

[Tcat]

I have ascertained the micro tanto's origins and have discovered that there are others like it...

The work was done in a studio located in China.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Very impressive, even if not Japanese they would be a pleasant novelty to own.

[Brian]

Since this isn't meant to be functional, just decorative...still like it a lot. Would display it anyday.
Like those Chen display boards showing miniatire katana through the forging process.

[ChrisW]

Regardless of it being Chinese, the work is quite nice. I like it!

[Matsunoki]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:15 AM, Tcat said:

The work was done in a studio located in China

That is very interesting. About 25 years ago some stunning but fake Japanese swords….tachi and Tanto mostly…hit the Meiji Art scene in the UK. I mean stunning….as good as Japanese metalwork. You would have to have seen one to believe. The rumour was they were made in China by Japanese craftsmen. The blades were excellent. I was offered one, a Tachi with similar dragon fittings to this Tanto, solid silver and proper mixed metals. Staggering quality. I was offered it out of the boot of a brand new Bentley at a major UK Exhibition. I was told it was new but more were available. Back then it was £5k which was really tempting and extreme.y cheap but I didn’t want to get involved. I knew a couple of London dealers had bought some. A few went through the rooms and then they just dried up. 
I wonder if this is the same outfit? You would have believed it was the best Meiji workmanship. 
Can these miniatures be bought now?

[Tcat]

3 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

I wonder if this is the same outfit?

 

We are going quite far back old boy so its doubtful. I forgot to mention the work is contemporary. I feel the need to chip in what I believe is a not commonly accepted piece of information / fact about China, a place I lived for approaching 15 years in total...that is...the country has a very large number of extremely skilled artists. Especially carvers and lacquer artists.

 

It is the most common thing in our hobby circle to see a poorly made reproduction sword, and together with others remark in unison ''obvious China fake'', however, this approach leads many to believe that this level of 'work' is indicitave of the length and breadth of what China has to offer in terms of 'Japanese style swords' - which is a dangerously ignorant take. Sorry, Chris W above, I dont mean to pick on you, but when you comment 'Regardless of it being Chinese' you exemplify what I am referring to.

 

Roughly 20 or so years ago when I was working for Sotheby's in London, there was a tachi in shirasaya which was left unsold after an auction and sat in a departmental store room for years. While doing a little tidying up I stumbled across the sword and had to take a look. Well, what I saw was what appeared to me to be a very nice shinshinto tachi with a wonderful tight hizen-like hada and suguha hamon. We had no experts left in London as the department had long since ceased samurai related sales, but I got in touch with the nearest guy who knew about the item and was located in our Paris office. He told me that the sword had been removed from an auction as it had been discovered to be a forgery made in China. He would not elaborate further on this... To caveat, I have owned both Chinese reproduction Japanese style swords and nihonto, and looked at quite a few recognised-as-high-quality nihonto on display. The sword I speak of was 'pristine' and there was absolutely nothing about it which would indicate that it was either a 'reproduction' or 'made in China'.

 

3 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Can these miniatures be bought now?

 

Commissioned and bought, yes.

[ChrisW]

3 hours ago, Tcat said:

 

It is the most common thing in our hobby circle to see a poorly made reproduction sword, and together with others remark in unison ''obvious China fake'', however, this approach leads many to believe that this level of 'work' is indicitave of the length and breadth of what China has to offer in terms of 'Japanese style swords' - which is a dangerously ignorant take. Sorry, Chris W above, I dont mean to pick on you, but when you comment 'Regardless of it being Chinese' you exemplify what I am referring to.

 

I never once indicated that there were not artisans capable of such work in China. My phrasing was to indicate that the vast majority of nihonto-like items that come out of China are of generally low quality and typically carry many obvious identifiers of fakery and deception. The above item, regardless of its origin, it is a nice piece of work. The issue with said item above would be when an owner would attempt to sell and pass it off as a genuine article (as was probably the case with the tachi you mentioned -- until it was discovered by someone there at Sotheby's).  You are making an assumption of someone whom you do not know and it isn't very flattering I'm afraid.

And usually, folk here are quite upfront about giving at least a few reasons why something might be considered a fraudulent item; unless the fear of improving the fakery is a substantial issue.

I would just take the compliment for your acquisition of an interesting curio piece, which is what the original comment was meant to be for.

[Tcat]

19 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

 

I never once indicated that there were not artisans capable of such work in China.

 

I never implied that you did. 

 

21 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

My phrasing was to indicate that the vast majority of nihonto-like items that come out of China are of generally low quality and typically carry many obvious identifiers of fakery and deception.

 

Indeed, and that is exactly the point at which most people's train of thought ends - hence my comment on this phenomenon. The post is for everyone, it is not directed at you.

 

 

[Matsunoki]

9 hours ago, Tcat said:

 

We are going quite far back old boy so its doubtful.

Alex, I’m not so sure. In the same way as Japanese pass their knowledge and skills on why not these Chinese craftsmen? I see such similarities between this Tanto and those that emerged way back…..even the dragon mounts. Most people on this forum would simply not believe their eyes had they encountered those earlier pieces. Some I know changed hands for well over £15k. They fooled two of the worlds top Meiji dealers.

In a way I hope it is the same studio ……such genius skills deserve to survive. I still wish I’d bought (and kept) the amazing Tachi. 

[Tcat]

15 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

In the same way as Japanese pass their knowledge and skills on why not these Chinese craftsmen?

 

Well, I'm sure they do, so you might be right. I certainly wouldnt try to argue that the two are completely unconnected, just have my doubts that they are one and the same source due to the chronological gap. From what I understand, the group that produced these micro swords are a contemporary collective of artisans with a variety of specialities.

 

15 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Most people on this forum would simply not believe their eyes had they encountered those earlier pieces.

 

I dont doubt. It's rare for very high quality works to be randomly submitted here for appraisal and commentary. 

 

The lesson is, if you see something and its really good for a good price, just buy it. But only if its really good 

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

The actual blade though?, 

 

I can only assume that its not a real forged blade with horimono at that size.

 

That thought, rains on the parade.

 

Surprised you guys getting so worked up over something in a picture.

 

Couldn't help but think that if in hand may be disappointed.

 

Just a thought. It is made in China after all.

[Tcat]

2 minutes ago, Alex A said:

It is made in China after all.

 

A troll? No better than Jacques