An alternative way to construct a tsuba?

[zanilu]

Much ado about nothing! 

[Dereks]

Again, it's just sad...

[Spartancrest]

10 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

There is no outer skin on this tsuba.

https://www.jauce.com/auction/r1168333030

   What to make of this one? I don't think it is fire damage, it looks like a layer is flaking off, certainly not carved that way. 

[KungFooey]

12 hours ago, Brian said:

I really wish Ford was still around.
Sigh.

From what I've read of Ford's fascinating and scholarly posts, he wouldn't have wasted a single second's precious oxygen even glancing at these totally unproven - and interminably ceaseless - 'theories'. 

[Brian]

23 minutes ago, KungFooey said:

From what I've read of Ford's fascinating and scholarly posts, he wouldn't have wasted a single second's precious oxygen even glancing at these totally unproven - and interminably ceaseless - 'theories'. 

Ford loved to rip a silly theory to pieces. He would have made short work of this.

[KungFooey]

Just now, Brian said:

Ford loved to rip a silly theory to pieces. He would have made short work of this.

In that case Brian, I wholeheartedly echo your wish that he was still with us.

[Matsunoki]

3 hours ago, KungFooey said:

From what I've read of Ford's fascinating and scholarly posts, he wouldn't have wasted a single second's precious oxygen even glancing at these totally unproven - and interminably ceaseless - 'theories'. 

Actually having known Ford (for 40 odd years) I think  he would have tried to explain and educate Dan and the rest of us. It was one of his greatest desires. It was mostly his long term health problems that dissuaded him from getting heavily involved over the last few years. He enjoyed a “healthy debate” and never came at things with a dismissive attitude. If the question was a genuine one he would always give his opinion and explain why. 

 

4 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

What to make of this one? I don't think it is fire damage, it looks like a layer is flaking off, certainly not carved that way. 

Hmm tricky that one Dale. My first reaction was “cast” . Second reaction was forged very badly and then subject to fire. Third reaction was don’t know but looks “got at” to me. At some point it looks to have been heavily pitted (unless cast). I’ll pass on that one and avoid trouble🙂

[1kinko]

Well, maybe Ford would have gotten involved but as with the other specious thread on cast iron tsuba I suspect he would have simply checked out. He appreciated that the secret to a long life was not arguing with fools.

[ROKUJURO]

To me, it looks like a defective wide-flange FUKURIN that was made in SAN-MAI technique or like the silver/gold foil on a HABAKI.
Obviously, that was not soldered and did not really stick on.

Difficult with photos only.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

The tsuba in question is a complete piece of junk which doesn't warrant five replies let alone five pages of them . Yet here I am responding !!.The Japanese would shake their heads in disbelief that the gaijin were discussing such a thing. The defect is probably just a result of poor workmanship when this crapper was made

[Dan tsuba]

Maybe?

Or the Japanese could be shaking their heads in wonderment that the gaijin do not realize that there was more than one way to make a tsuba in the Edo period!

Who is to say?

[OceanoNox]

I'd like to see a document that describes that very special method that us stupid gaijin don't know about. I did not see anything like that in several old books (鐔に見る日本の意匠, 鐔芸術考, 鐔入門 : 百人百鐔, or even 人倫訓蒙図彙). I don't recall it being mentioned in Western publications either.

So, something that Japanese and non-Japanese experts don't know about...

But we do know that charcoal and urushi were, and still are, baked onto the surface of iron items.

But what do I know, I am a stupid gaijin.

[Brian]

5 hours ago, Dan tsuba said:

Maybe?

Or the Japanese could be shaking their heads in wonderment that the gaijin do not realize that there was more than one way to make a tsuba in the Edo period!

Who is to say?

You just don't give up, do you?

You make up some fantasy crap theory, and then you just get more and more ludicrous in trying to validate it.
Who is to say? Well....US. You know, the leading English discussion group on the subject in the world with members including Japanese experts and others from over 32 countries. Yes..US.
Don't you even consider the fact that there isn't a single person here agreeing with your made up theory?

"This person has hit rock bottom....and has now started to dig"

[ROKUJURO]

Within the rules of NMB, Dan can post whatever he finds interesting. It is our fault when we respond to nonsense and keep the threads alive. 

[Matsunoki]

What Jean says is so true. It’s a bit like picking a scab. You know you shouldn’t do it, you know it hurts but you just can’t resist and so you do it anyway🙂

Apologies for bad taste.

[DirkO]

on the other hand - you need to reply - otherwise these statements go unchecked! Context needs to be provided.

[Brian]

Agreed. Otherwise new collectors come here and take these posts as gospel.
You remember how adamant Darcy was about disputing every case where uchiko was advocated, to make sure people didn't think it was encouraged.

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Brian,

So, you stated a quote-

"This person has hit rock bottom....and has now started to dig".

Of course, you didn’t state who said that quote (or was that just you?).

 

Here is another good quote-

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Carl Sagan

I think that would apply to the cast iron tsuba thread and also this thread!

[zanilu]

There is an old saying in Italy that goes:

 

Non c'é peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire

(There is none so deaf as he who will not hear).

 

 

[Dereks]

The most suitable one in this situation is: 

 

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man by argument. 

 

by William McAdoo 

 

@Brian This thread doesn't do anyone any good...People will keep on feeding him and It will just go on and on..Just a waste of time...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

John had it right with the trolling.

 

This is ridiculous. Assume like others here, they gave Dan the benefit of the doubt out of decency but he keeps coming back on the same subject and being wrong, like a misguided boomerang. 

 

Its boring now. No doubt if you have written a book Dan, you really have gone about it the wrong way in promoting yourself.

 

All the best anyways.

[ROKUJURO]

Alex,

a misguided boomerang does not come back.....

It is perhaps more along these lines:

[GeorgeLuucas]

I fear we are playing the part of unpaid editors and producers of his Amazon books. His book is harmful to the collecting community, being nothing but circumstantial conspiracy theories copy and pasted from his posts on THIS forum. How is a new collector to know his book is less credible than another? 

He knows what he's doing is unethical. Otherwise he wouldn't be so defensive about his book. Ever met an author who doesn't want to market their material? 

I understand my words are not "flowers and rainbows" - so delete if needed. 
But this is the way I see it. 
Are we helping him write another?
-Sam

[Shugyosha]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Within the rules of NMB, Dan can post whatever he finds interesting. It is our fault when we respond to nonsense and keep the threads alive. 

 

Yep. Don't feed the troll - just ignore. It's like the kids that don't play nice, they either fit in or play by themselves.

[Dan tsuba]

O.K. everyone.  You all win.

I can no longer take this undeserved mass ridicule.

I am out of here.

[1kinko]

OK, so what's the difference in NMB rules that his rubbish can continue, but discussions in Isakaya can get locked because the king says so?