Another one

[Jacques D.]

Nagasa = 64.8 cm

Sori = 0.6 cm

Kitae = Standing out ko-itame with a strong ji nie and a midare utsuri.  

Hamon = Nioideki compact and clear.

Boshi  = Suguha cho with hakikake along the rather pointed kaeri on the ura side 

[Nihonto student]

Yakidashi, Bizen feeling,shallow sori, midare utsuri...my guess:

 

Spoiler

Kanbun Ishido

 

[Alex A]

Giordy, knowing Jacques it wont be Ishido

 

It looks Edo, so taking into account It has Utsuri.

 

Without spending all day and just for fun, something like Munetsugu or Sukehiro.

[sabiji]

Of course it's possible! Heki Mitsuhira and co. in particular have managed to create some gaudy Midare Utsuri.
Only very few Ishido people could do anything with a yakidashi.
The yakidashi is short and steep, typical for Osaka. Ko-Itame, compact Nioi-Deki...I would have nothing against Bitchu kami Yasuhiro.

 

But here it comes! I'm staying in Osaka, and I think Alex A is alluding to Tsuda Sukehiro. The swordsmith who is famous for his Nie-Deki Toran, or Suguha created with deep Nioiguchi: I have seen a blade from Tsuda Sukehiro that would have easily put Heki Mitsuhiro in his pocket! Compact nioideki, choji in the best Ishido style and a fierce midare utsuri. Sukehiro could do much more than what he is known for.

 

So absolutely possible.

[Nihonto student]

53 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Giordy, knowing Jacques it wont be Ishido

 

It looks Edo, so taking into account It has Utsuri.

 

Without spending all day and just for fun, something like Munetsugu or Sukehiro.

 

Yes Alex, I expect that the solution will be completely different from what it may seem and that Jacques will surprise us, but just to argue a little about my (Certainly incorrect) choice and make the post constructive:

- Yakidashi certainly recalls Osaka but for Mishina the choji midare belongs to a few (Es Yoshikuni) and not pure nioi

- For Tsuda Sukehiro I would expect yakidashi not to rise, furthermore the nioguchi seems too compact to me

- Yokoyama is another option but the choji arrangement is generally different

- For Munetsugu I would expect midare boshi

 

My modest knowledge leads me to think that nioideki after 1600 regard schools oriented towards following Bizen therefore Ishido seems to fit for me, even the hamon is high almost touching shinogi.

In any case I think that the nagasa is misleading and out of standard for the period of the blade.

[Alex A]

Maybe Thomas, just looked online and did see oshigata with long Kaeri with hakikake

[Alex A]

9 minutes ago, Nihonto student said:

 

Yes Alex, I expect that the solution will be completely different from what it may seem and that Jacques will surprise us, but just to argue a little about my (Certainly incorrect) choice and make the post constructive:

- Yakidashi certainly recalls Osaka but for Mishina the choji midare belongs to a few (Es Yoshikuni) and not pure nioi

- For Tsuda Sukehiro I would expect yakidashi not to rise, furthermore the nioguchi seems too compact to me

- Yokoyama is another option but the choji arrangement is generally different

- For Munetsugu I would expect midare boshi

 

My modest knowledge leads me to think that nioideki after 1600 regard schools oriented towards following Bizen therefore Ishido seems to fit for me, even the hamon is high almost touching shinogi.

In any case I think that the nagasa is misleading and out of standard for the period of the blade.

 

No experts here, we all guessing. Like i said, just throwing some in without spending all afternoon on it, gave myself 10 mins, now looking again.

 

Check out the slanted yakidashi here, similar to Jacques above but i guess looking closer, not as slanted. Then i just think one of those things, all hand made.

 

Q682. Long Katana by Tsuda Sukehiro, Tokubetsu Hozon - Japanese sword books and tsuba

[Jussi Ekholm]

I would guess Bitchū no Kami Yasuhiro (備中守康広).

 

I would agree on what Jacques mentioned about Kantei on other thread. I am not really doing kantei in traditional way as it should be done. I lack skill in that. However I consider myself good in researching stuff and I use that skill instead of proper kantei. Therefore my style is just research instead of actual knowledge.

[Alex A]

Im confident that Jussi with his database has the answer, and ive not even looked to check

[Nihonto student]

Not a bed call by Jussi https://www.google.c...mE5nahNznLqORv0b7GrE

[Alex A]

17 minutes ago, Nihonto student said:

Not a bed call by Jussi https://www.google.c...mE5nahNznLqORv0b7GrE

 

Dunno now you add that link

 

Ko-itame hada mixed with o-hada that is inclined to be masame-hada.  Utsuri is seen at times.

[Jacques D.]

It's Yasuhiro

 

The sugata and yakidashi pointed to a Shinto blade, but the midare utsuri could lead people to think of a Bizen koto (that's why I hid all the nakago). The point that disqualifies Koto Bizen is the boshi, which should have been in accordance with the hamon as yakidashi is not compulsory. Nidai Sukehiro never produced an utsuri, the shodai did from time to time, but it's a pale bo utsuri that's hard to see, and katana by this smith are extremely rare. Nidai Sukehiro's yakidashi is shorter and the hamon often starts under the ha machi. 

In any case, bravo to those who dared to take the plunge and found the solution. 

 

ps Alex really doesn't know me very well...

[Alex A]

Actually quite interesting. Its only that way when you spend as little time as possible on it, you can look at this stuff for hours on end.,

 

I will tell you how i came to the Sukehiro.

 

Knew it was Edo and the mention of "midare" Utsuri stood out. I couldn't remember who exactly was the Edo Utsuri swordsmiths so grabbed Connoisseurs to have a look.

 

Under the heading Midare Utsuri Shinto, Sukehiro was mentioned and thought would take a further look and a lot fit..

 

Like i said, wasn't spending all day on this and just for fun. Never studied this smith.

 

Blade appears really healthy.

 

Well done to those above in the right department.

 

Oh, and no Jacques, in all the time on here i dont remember you ever talking Ishido, mostly Hizen

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

Actually

 

Reading what was written above

 

"Ko-itame hada mixed with o-hada that is inclined to be masame-hada.  Utsuri is seen at times."

 

Have you picked a TYPICAL sword Jacques?

 

Sword MUST be Typical, otherwise its just a nonsense exercise  and ive wasted 10 minutes plus a bit more

[Alex A]

To me, its more Sukehiro than Yasuhiro, so come to the conclusion its gimei

[Jacques D.]

Quote

Under the heading Midare Utsuri Shinto, Sukehiro was mentioned and thought would take a further look and a lot fit..

it's written Shodai Sukehiro and now would you read carefully the page 238 and tell me if utsuri is mentioned in the jihada of the Sukehiro school ...

 

Quote

Have you picked a TYPICAL sword Jacques?

This sword was presented in kantei by NBTHK

[Alex A]

Didnt read 238 under 10 minute (within fun and not pain rule)

 

Though according to Freds website above that usually follows the written notes, im not thinking its typical for the school

 

Though late now and just a thought.

 

I am always under the impression that any photographic or like kantei HAS to be the usual type of work for any smith, otherwise its just grey area.

[Jacques D.]

Nihonto Koza afu Watson translation Shinto volume 

[Nihonto student]

In any case I think it's a good exercise, congrats to Thomas and Jussi 

[Alex A]

18 minutes ago, Jacques D. said:

Nihonto Koza afu Watson translation Shinto volume 

 

 

I was talking about your kantei Yasuhiro. Not looked into it but got the impression it is not TYPICAL work or is it?

 

Us guys here are not NBTHK and don't have their database

 

In future, before i spend a time doing one of these kantei, the first question i ask will always be "IS THIS KANTEI TYPICAL WORK FOR THE SMITH?"

 

If not, not interested. 

 

We all know the smiths we are interested in and that makes it easier. Unknown smiths with non typical work and it becomes a non worth it.

 

Though we all like different stuff, so il leave it there.

[Jussi Ekholm]

This particular katana was 3rd of 5 kantei blades at NBTHK headquarters on 14.2.2009. It was featured in Tōken Bijutsu 626 as they have a write up on their monthly kantei blades that were featured in study session at headquarters. What is funny coincidence is that I have this particular magazine noted down as it features an article about Nanbokuchō period ōdachi. I also remember looking up Yasuhiro as potential answer for one of the NBTHK monthly magazine kantei some time ago, however went with another answer for that kantei. That is why I now looked up Yasuhiro when seeing the hamon.

 

 

In honesty I am pretty clueless on Shintō and Shinshintō swords. I think it could have been any Ishidō variant and I would have been understanding it. Pretty much all my data is focused on Heian to Early-midish Muromachi, and these later works are lot of guessing on my part. So for me on this just few lucky things combined narrowed down my guessed general direction.

[Jacques D.]

Quote

IS THIS KANTEI TYPICAL WORK FOR THE SMITH?

 

Yes it is

[Gakusee]

Let us thank Jacques for the kantei and congratulate Jussi and Thomas. It has to be that and no other bickering please. 

[lonely panet]

Can we run these abit long. I want to participate but didn't get a chance

 Before the gender reveal

[Alex A]

14 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

Let us thank Jacques for the kantei and congratulate Jussi and Thomas. It has to be that and no other bickering please. 

We are not bickering, we are talking.

 

And ive yet to see that this is typical work though wont have time look into it now.

 

Anyone can pull a random sword but hardly fair unless its the usual work of a known smith.

 

Actually, not worth taking part.

 

 

[Alex A]

Just had time to look into the Kii Ishido and cant really find much about it in comparison to other schools, not even anything about about what the hada looks like in the index of Japanese swordsmiths. A mention of the hamon and midare Utsuri. Looked elsewhere and there is a mention of itame, mokume and masame. Then above from Fred's site, Ko-itame hada mixed with o-hada that is inclined to be masame-hada.  Utsuri is seen at times. Its a mixed bag, so to speak.

 

In that respect, its not an easy sword for these games. 

 

We are looking at a drawing, i never looked for a drawing to match. The mention of Ko-itame above don't really help when your coming across a mixture of various hada write-ups.

 

If it comes down to looking at a drawing and seeing if i have a drawing to match, this particular type of kantei is not for me. As that was the only way i would have got it.

 

 

 

Thanks anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jacques D.]

13 hours ago, lonely panet said:

Can we run these abit long. I want to participate but didn't get a chance

 Before the gender reveal

the next one will be stay a week before answer 

[sabiji]

I would like to take another brief look at the Kantei.

I deliberately mentioned Tsuda Sukehiro because of Alex A, BECAUSE I fell flat on my face with a Kantei with a blade by Nidai Sukehiro with Choji and UTSURI, because I typed Heki Mitsuhira.
Many people don't know Bizen-Den blades by Tsuda Sukehiro, but they do exist because he did something like this, albeit rarely. Such blades are of course real Kantei killers, but you should always keep the possibility in mind.

 

And seek and ye shall find: here is a Tsuda Sukehiro with choji and clearly visible midare utsuri:

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/9142/as21174-脇差：津田越前守助広二代/

 

Incidentally, one should also not forget the Chikuzen-Nobukuni Shinto representatives. They can also do utsuri. However, the nioiguchi is not as strongly compressed as that of the important Ishido people.

However, the pronounced Osaka yakidashi made me bring in Yasuhiro.