Honami origami translation

[JeanEB]

Hi everyone, 

I was hoping to get some help with translation of a Honami origami appraisal for a blade seen at a dealer. I was wondering about the era of appraisal and validity of the origami. 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Jean,

I think I would treating this with a great deal of circumspection and be asking myself it the blade and the paper go together - there is a big market for old Hon'ami papers and no doubt a lot of incentive to forge them if originals can't be got.

 

Another alarm bell ringing is that the attribution is to Bizen kuni Nagamitsu 備前国長光 who is a very, very big name. https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/NAG281

 

The combination of these two factors suggests a scam to me. Do you have any pictures of the blade to post?

[nulldevice]

Looking at the Soshuden Musuem site on the Hon'ami monograms it looks like this is one is purporting to be the 12th gen. http://www.nihonto-m...on-ami-monograms-kao

[JeanEB]

Hi John, thank you for the quick answer, I had some of the same worries which is why I came to this forum. The blade is mumei, with a chu-kissaki. From the pictures, I have a hard time saying if the Nakago is adequately aged for a Kamakura blade. The sagayaki seems to fit with the honami paper, which is either comforting or sign that extra thought was put into presenting this as genuine. Not sure about the sanskrit character on the blade tbh

[Rivkin]

With me looking at the package raises questions.

To be short and practical if the blade has no modern papers I would disregard the origami.

If it has papers to Nagamitsu I would disregard internet opinions. In deep theory its possible its Nagamitsu and origami is original, but there are significant things I don't like about either one.

[JeanEB]

Thank you for the response Kirill, 

I agree with the caution you are suggesting. Evaluating the sword aside from the paperwork, most of the blade characteristics could pass for a nagamitsu, my main worry is that I have a hard time telling if the kissaki is sansaku-boshi or not. I'm also concerned that the kissaki should be shorter for a kamakura blade

[Rivkin]

2 minutes ago, JeanEB said:

Thank you for the response Kirill, 

I agree with the caution you are suggesting. Evaluating the sword aside from the paperwork, most of the blade characteristics could pass for a nagamitsu, my main worry is that I have a hard time telling if the kissaki is sansaku-boshi or not. I'm also concerned that the kissaki should be shorter for a kamakura blade

Nagamitsu tends to have very well defined choji, with a few exceptions.

This one is notare-midare.

Other things are weird as well.

[JeanEB]

I would argue that the choji hamon is more exclusively associated with his father, as Nagamitsu has a significant amount of gunome and even some suguha in the later years (or in the 2nd generation if you subscribe to that theory), which is why I was giving the hamon the benefit of the doubt. example of suguha blade from him 

https://www.christie...m/en/lot/lot-4990391

[PNSSHOGUN]

The seller has an endless supply of big name fakes, you won't be finding any lost treasures here. He is prolific on yahoo auctions and now co-listing on ebay for us clueless Gaijin.

 

[KungFooey]

Two warning signs for me: the hamon starts at the hamachi, whereas it should run on into the tang if it's been shortened.
Also if it's been so greatly shortened what are the engraved Kanji characters doing that far up the blade?

[JeanEB]

as John mentions, the seller has a few other blades available, a few of them papered by NBTHK, would that mean that these papers are likely fake too?

[Shugyosha]

I’m sorry but I don’t know the seller that the other John is referring to - do you want to post a link?  The papers won’t necessarily be fake but you need to be careful of the older green papers which may not be accurate. Modern NBTHK papers would be harder to fake with various seals and watermarks and a verifiable serial number. 

 

Jean, with the greatest of respect, you need to know more before you spend serious money on a sword - it’s a minefield for the uninitiated and often even for those with knowledge. 

[JeanEB]

John, thank you for the reply and I do understand your warning. The listing I was looking at was curious in that there was no NBTHK papers, but rather a presumed Honami Kojo appraisal and a Kanzan Sagayaki. While superficial and early, my understanding of the reliability of appraisal papers was rather limited to ho/tokuho and knowing that the older paper (white/blue/green) were definitely not reliable. Where I found it difficult was on whether or not I could rely on the presumed appraisals of renowned individuals outside of the major organizations in settings where I can't confidently say that the sword's architecture is obviously a certain smith's or a school's. 

John J, here is the listing link (I understand all about the reservations we should have when buying from Ebay, however with their buyer protection program, it's probably one of the easiest sources to get a reimbursement from if the sword is inaccurately advertised). 

 

https://www.ebay.com...f:g:RYQAAOSwhNJnWRKV

[Shugyosha]

Hi Jean,

I think you have to weigh the reliability of appraisals in the context of the item, seller, price and the place where an item is being sold. These days, without modern papers (as Kiril suggested) I think that you have to assume the worst and not proceed and the degree of danger is usually commensurate with the rank of the supposed smith concerned. In this case, the Hon'ami paper may be genuine but there's nothing to tie it to this blade and Kanzan's sayagaki are known to be outright faked or altered (the ink on this one is surprisingly fresh looking to me). This combined with the attribution absolutely screams "too good to be true" in the context of a $5k ebay sale.

 

However, you might feel that there's something about the blade that you feel justifies the risk as you've clearly done some homework on it and, if so, I wish you well with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gakusee]

There are so many things wrong here…. Main one being that the sword does not look like Osafune Nagamitsu in workmanship. 
 

Also, compare a genuine Kojo origami herein. 
 

I have had a few Kanzan sayagaki…. Let us just say that this one above looks very intense in the ink colour and execution….

[reinhard]

This is not a work of THE Nagamitsu from Osafune in Bizen province.

Outline of hamon and thin and constricted nioi-guchi are far from his style.

Additional old papers, fake or not, won't change anything.

 

reinhard

[Franco D]

On 12/12/2024 at 3:50 PM, JeanEB said:

I would argue that the choji hamon is more exclusively associated with his father, as Nagamitsu has a significant amount of gunome and even some suguha in the later years (or in the 2nd generation if you subscribe to that theory), which is why I was giving the hamon the benefit of the doubt. example of suguha blade from him 

https://www.christie...m/en/lot/lot-4990391

 

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A BIZEN TACHI
SIGNED NAGAMITSU, KAMAKURA PERIOD (13TH-14TH CENTURY)
Sugata [configuration]: honzukuri, iorimune, deep koshizori, chu-kissaki
Kitae [forging pattern]: close ko-itame with mokume, vivid midare utsuri
Hamon [tempering pattern]: choji with gunome with ashi and yo, bright and rather tight nioiguchi with ko-nie
Boshi [tip]: shallow notare with komaru
Horimono [carvings]: on the omote a so-no-kurikara and on the ura the characters 'Hachiman Daibosatsu' much depleted by polishing.
Nakago [tang]: suriage, katte sagari file marks, four mekugi-ana, ha-agari kurijiri tip, with the two-character signature close to the mune just below the middle of the tang.
Habaki [collar]: double gold with myoga mon
Nagasa [length]: 69.2cm.
In shirasaya [plain wood scabbard]

 

https://www.christie...m/en/lot/lot-4990391

 

 

 

If you click on the image provided in the link above and then fully enlarge it, it is easy to see (in the first figure on the left) that this is in fact not a suguha hamon. That, and the written verbal description.

 

Desire is the cause of suffering.