Saotome Ienori - Further Info Sought

[Winchester]

Greetings, 

 

I am trying to find further information to study on Saotome Ienori.

 

From Markus Sesko, the reference: "And this brings us to the tsuba makers banzuke that I was talking about (see picture below). It is titled Tôken Tsuba Kagami (刀剣鍔鏡) and was compiled by Noda Takaaki (野田敬明, 1759-1825) some time during the Bunsei era (文政, 1818-1830). 

 

... It is also interesting to learn that two Saotome artists are found within the top ranks. Anyway, it becomes clear that this banzuke focuses on tankô (鐔工), i.e. tsuba craftsmen...".

 

Saotome Ienori is listed as a top tsubashi over a very long period of time...YET I cannot seem to find any info.

 

Is there a book or resource someone can direct me to for further study and/or do you have any information/commentary you can share?

 

Thanks!

[Toryu2020]

Brian -

Which kanji are we using for Ienori?

 

-t

[Okan]

I've used an AI for the translations, so I don't know how accurate they are (though they should be okay to some degree), but I'm sure you'll be able to get something from them.

 

1. 

 

Ietada, often inscribed with the signature "Saotome Ietada" or the five-character signature, also appears as "Jōshū-ju Saotome Ietada" in some works. He was the son of the first-generation Kō, and there are various theories about his role, including the claim that he was the second generation of the Saotome school. However, he is considered a prominent craftsman of the Saotome lineage, alongside Iesada, and it seems likely that he was active in the same period.

Ietada was a maker of demon (oni) motifs, and works attributed to him from the Momoyama period, as well as a kabuto bowl inscribed with a 15th-year Genroku (1702) date, are confirmed. There are also records of kabuto signatures from the Tenbun, Eiroku, and Tenshō eras in ancient texts.

The name Ietada appears in works from different periods, including the Momoyama period and the mid to late Edo period, and several people with the same name are believed to have existed.

The "mai" (the dance) is typically made from a muscle-style kabuto bowl shaped like a mokkō (melon), with twenty-four or sixteen overlapping pieces, showcasing a typical technique of armor craftsmen. Many of these works are thought to belong to the mid-Edo period. In the late Edo period, there are works that include chrysanthemum-shaped designs, sturdy patterns, hammer-textured surfaces, as well as ear-flaps made with rope patterns, and other styles like the Tenpō style or copies of family works.

Ienori is inscribed as "Saotome Ienori" or "Jōshū-ju Saotome Ienori". The "mai" of this school is mostly seen in mokkō shapes, angular-less shapes, and chrysanthemum shapes, though the round forms typically associated with the Meijin school are rare.

The chrysanthemum-shaped raised patterns and piercing techniques are likely derived from the same ideas and methods used in the kabuto bowls. Ienori's works can also be seen from the mid and late Edo periods, with more examples from the latter period.

The designs often feature chrysanthemum motifs, crests, patterns of auspicious plants (Hōrai), leaves, and the sun. Occasionally, there are rare examples incorporating unique techniques such as patterns of paulownia vines or variations on the Nō-style inlays. In the past, there was a relatively young piece signed "Jōshū-ju Saotome Iesada, 19 years old," which featured a steel-based, angular-less design with pierced patterns of leaves and paulownia.

Iekyu, signed "Saotome Iekyu," is known for a small number of pierced tsuba (sword guards) and works in the Tenpō style. Furthermore, other members of the Saotome school include Ieyoshi, Ietaka, Ietomi, and Iesada.

 

2. 

 

Saotome Ienori and Ietada were active around the Tenbun era.

As mentioned above, when it comes to the style of works from the great Saotome family, compared to the Meijin school, the shapes are generally larger, thicker, and appear more robust overall. The forging techniques of the base metal seem rough and somewhat hasty, suggesting that they were less refined. As a result, there are certain aspects where the works appear less elegant. When considered from the perspective of armor-making, it seems likely that these pieces were made by individuals who lived during the Tenbun era. However, further examination shows that while there are certainly works from the same era, some pieces seem to belong to later periods. Among the works that appear more recent, there are those that share characteristics with works by needleworkers (shinkō) and that show a departure from the traditional armor-making craft. These works may suggest that the authors, including Ienori, Ietada, and Iesada, had apprentices or descendants who continued to make works with the same signature for two or three generations. The lack of detailed genealogies makes it difficult to definitively separate these individuals and their familial connections, but the differences between parent and child or sibling are distinguishable.

One of the masterpieces of Iesada is a pierced piece with a stylized design of "Kiri" (paulownia) and "Tōka" (a specific geometric pattern) on the "right and left" of the piece, which demonstrates the skill and refinement of the maker. The piece has gold coloring on the flowers, and it appears to have features in common with works by the well-known artist Seiami. Iesada seems to have specialized in such designs, and I have seen several similar works from the same school. Additionally, I have seen an intricate, large piece by Iesada, featuring a pierced kabuto bowl with a geometric face pattern, where the ear is surrounded by a copper rim.

Another piece by Iesada, a mokkō (melon-shaped) tsuba featuring the inscription "Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō" with a carved-out design, is also typical of his work. I have seen a few similar pieces, and they all stand out for their refined elegance, though they vary in size. There is also a piece signed by Iekyu, featuring a mokkō shape with a pierced design, including elements such as the "Daikichi" (great fortune) characters and net-like patterns, which resemble the Tenpō style. These kinds of works, as well as the previously mentioned designs, seem to be the particular specialties of the Saotome school.

Professor Wada’s theory suggests that mokkō-shaped pieces are common, but I believe that the pierced (nukagaku) pieces are the most prevalent among them. Additionally, there is a piece bearing the signature of Ietada in the collection of the Furukawa family, featuring a thin, armor-like design with a deer’s head carved in a rough, simplistic manner. This piece is an exceptional rarity among Saotome works, and it is a fascinating example of a craftsman’s true talent. There seems to be a clear distinction in style here, demonstrating the unmistakable qualities of an armor maker.

Professor Akiyama’s theory notes that "Among armor makers, the works of Meijin Nobuie and Saotome Iesada stand out." He continues by saying, "Iesada is skilled, but some of his works appear too polished, almost losing their connection to traditional armor-making. Many counterfeit pieces from Aizu exist, so one must be especially careful. Fashion trends in sword guard designs change with time, and there were periods when styles such as those from Saotome Iesada, Tenpō, Nampō-kyō, Keitō, Hikone’s Munetora, Kamakura, and Yagami tsuba flourished. At other times, the works of artists like Ritsuchū, Seiami, and the older Seiami school were more popular. As time passed, however, the works of Saotome Iesada, along with those from the older Seiami and other schools, gradually fell out of favor, and styles from other regions like Yamato, Satsuma, and Unsu began to command higher prices. Nonetheless, the works of artists like Kin’ya, Jōya, and Meiji will likely always receive some level of recognition, though it seems unlikely that they will ever achieve the level of acclaim they once had."

[Winchester]

In the following link, My tsuba  , is listed in a photo marked "44 Nakamura 1963". (about 3/4 of the way down the page)

 

It is a signed Kamakura-bori piece that I have a green paper for. When I was doing some initial reading, I came across Markus Sesko's blog that discussed there were two tsubashi  from the school that were top ranked; whereas, further effort to study didn't provide any additional paths. (I am thankful to you both Thomas and Okan; Okan, that is more information than I have been able to find. Many thanks.)

 

 

[Okan]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

In the following link, My tsuba  , is listed in a photo marked "44 Nakamura 1963". (about 3/4 of the way down the page)

 

It is a signed Kamakura-bori piece that I have a green paper for. When I was doing some initial reading, I came across Markus Sesko's blog that discussed there were two tsubashi  from the school that were top ranked; whereas, further effort to study didn't provide any additional paths. (I am thankful to you both Thomas and Okan; Okan, that is more information than I have been able to find. Many thanks.)

 

 

 

 

 

No worries. Here is another Kamakura piece looking similar to yours.(no other info just the period)  Picture is not the best quality but it's from an old book. 

 

Oops..this was already in Tsuba Kansho..Nevermind  

 

[Toryu2020]

The Shin-Katchushi Meikan lists two Ienori; 家則 and 家儀

家則 Ienori - late Edo Hitachi

The Kokon Kajimei Hayamidashi lists Ienori as the son of Ieyoshi and lists him as the 14th generation. Helmets are done in the Saotome style with a gentle taste. He also made tsuba signing "Joshu Ju Saotome Ienori" and these are Late-Edo works around Kansei. An old book lists "Ienori Joshu Saotome Katchushi Tenbun Goro" Howeverthis is a different person from the man who signed "Joshu Ju Saotome Ienori" and Sasama Sensei says we don't have any evidence of an Ienori in the Momoyama or early Edo period.

[Toryu2020]

Conversely -

Japanese Armor-makers for the Samurai says;

家則 Hitachi 1532-1554 A skilled maker

The genealogy of the Saotome lists Ienori as the brother of the founder Nobuyasu. Since the existence of Nobuyasu cannot be confirmed, this relationship is questionable but Ienori would appear to be one of the first members of the Saotome group.

 

家則 Hitachi 1789-1800 A skilled maker

There were probably two Saotome working during the late Edo period using the name Ienori. Surviving examples of the workmanship of this Ienori reveal two distinct styles of workmanship. 

[Winchester]

Thank you, Thomas. I am still uncertain what to believe in terms of timeline.
 

We are gaining further insight—thank you for all the contributions everyone—but to whom can we ascribe the high ranking to from Markus’ article referring to the ranking list published around 1815?
 

In holding my tsuba in hand, I am a bit incredulous that this is late Edo. 
 

I seek to be objective and learn. Just not sure what to make of it.

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Brian,

 

One of the challenges for iron tsuba connoisseurs is in attempting to differentiate the genuine early (pre-Edo) iron guards -- especially those attached to famous names (e.g. Saotome, Nobuie, Yamakichibei) -- from those made in the mid- to late-19th century during the era of Bakumatsu revivalism.  This period saw quite a bit of enthusiasm for returning to the glories of Momoyama times, and this manifested in many efforts among the sword guard makers of the day to pay homage to those illustrious tsubako of the past.  I don't have much specific knowledge on the Saotome, but it is not difficult to imagine a late-Edo Saotome smith harkening back to "the good old days" in creating a tsuba meant to express those aesthetic sensibilties.  I'm not saying your tsuba is certainly a 19th-century work, as I just don't know.  But it is worth remembering that a lot of 19th-century works were made to try to capture the powerful iron expressions seen in the tsuba of nearly three hundred years earlier.  

[Winchester]

The tsuba is published in a book and has papers; both are in Japanese, however. I’ll request a translation and make a donation to the forum.

 

Perhaps this can provide further direction. 
 

 

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

The Saotome’ School of kabuto makers is believed to have been founded by Ietada, after Sekigahara. One can often see Saotome tsuba dated much earlier than that. I believe that the tradition to date Saotome tsuba to Muromachi and Momoyama might need to be reconsidered.

 

Anthony

[Iekatsu]

Anthony is right, there is no evidence to support that the Saotome were active before the Edo Period. There is also no link to support the spoked Kiku and Tembo style examples that are so often associated with Saotome. The Saotome definitely made Tsuba, there are many examples, the vast majority of which are signed.