Maybe my cleaning has gone too far?!

[KungFooey]

Hi all,

 

Some might remember the first guard I posted and me mentioning it was real rusty? It was thick, active rust so I looked at various comments on cleaning guards and got hold of some old pieces of ivory to scrape it off.
Well, I sure got rid of all the active rust but I think I've taken it too far. 😳

It's lost it's brown look and turned a dull black grey with one or two points of silver steel peeking out

 

On the wood background is the 'before' photos and on the white background is the 'after'.

 

Sorry to all the angry people out there if I've destroyed a guard!

 

Dee

[KungFooey]

I know it looks like the top picture is color and the bottom is black and white - but they are both color!

[Bugyotsuji]

All things considered, I think you have done a good job. It may need to settle down a bit, and you can get some handling into it, without application of hand creams, etc.!

[Spartancrest]

Keep rubbing it every now and then with a soft cotton cloth, it will pick up a glossy finish eventually, sun exposure can also help. I think it will look much better over time, you did a good job to get rid of that "pork crackling" rust [A term I just made up ]

[Spartancrest]

You aren't selling yours are you?     https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1162893289   No not enough "lobes"!

[ROKUJURO]

Deanne,

you did well to remove the red rust! Now a good patina can build up. 

 Iron TSUBA should be "cuddled" with bare hands quite often as this will help build up the protective black iron oxide layer. This process will take some time so be patient!

[KungFooey]

Many thanks guys!

I thought I'd messed it up 😳

 

I'll be sure to cuddle it a lot! 😊

[KungFooey]

1 hour ago, Spartancrest said:

You aren't selling yours are you?     https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1162893289   No not enough "lobes"!

That looks like mine 'before'! 😅

[KungFooey]

3 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Keep rubbing it every now and then with a soft cotton cloth, it will pick up a glossy finish eventually, sun exposure can also help. I think it will look much better over time, you did a good job to get rid of that "pork crackling" rust [A term I just made up ]

Pork crackling! 🤣

[sabi]

Moderate to severe rust will destroy the patina underneath, likely that it was long gone and you removing it revealed the state of things underneath. 

 

Looks pretty good and as others have said it'll (slowly) come back over time.  I'll echo Jean's statement while mixing in some periodic cloth rubbing to clean up the surface.  

 

Keep in mind, this isn't an overnight process.  Patience is key.  I had a light spot on an Owari guard I previously owned (which are generally known to be fast healing) and it still took a couple years to fully blend in. 

[rkg]

8 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Actually, if you look at this one, it could be that there is still inlay on this piece, and a lot of the "stuff" on the surface could well be something called "sukiurushi" - I've posted about this stuff in the distant past with microscope images, etc (I think - the chemo has actually messed with my memory - I can't recall now if I posted this work to Rich Turner's old tosogu FB page or here on the nmb)  But I digress.

 

The stuff is Really Hard and difficult to remove and... you almost should leave it in place as the inlay under it will look fresh and clean - and.. (diatribe on apparent age of pieces deleted)

In any case, from this image, this appears to me to be one of those "are you feeling lucky" pieces - hard to tell if the surface is just rust and crud over long gone inlays, or if the inlays (or the bulk of them) are still there and it has gunk (probably sukiurushi) over (most of) them or what.  maybe it the seller added an oblique image or two it would be more obvious....

 

Or maybe its just my new caffiene free lifestyle catching up with me...

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

 

8 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

 

 

 

You aren't selling yours are you?     https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1162893289   No not enough "lobes"!

 

[Tim Evans]

A good start. Quite often a cleaning project will look worse before it gets better, so that requires a long term commitment. There is a detailed description of the iron tsuba cleaning and patina growth process in Sasano's "gold" book:

 

Sasano, Masayuki. Sukashi Tsuba. London, England: Robert G. Sawers, 1974.

 

It may be possible for you to find a copy through the local library if you want to read it first. As Sasano states, after removing the red rust the next step is to stimulate the formation of black rust, so avoid lotions or oily perspirations that would shut out air and interfere with the oxidation process. A wash with mild soap and water is ok to degrease and get off any remaining loose red rust. Setting it in a sunny window is helpful because adding some mild heat will increase the rate of oxidation. 

[Spartancrest]

One formula of many for patination of iron tsuba - https://www.jimkelso...rials/ironpatina.htm

All entail a little risk.

[Oldman]

Earlier this year I acquired an iron tsuba. Before buying it I noticed in the listing photos that it had an odd, very glossy, black "patina" and asked the dealer if the patina had been redone or otherwise enhanced. He assured me that it had not. Upon receipt the patina still looked odd, almost like it had been painted with gloss black paint. When handling it I found that my hands felt a bit oily and it smelled like maybe 3 in 1 oil. I followed suggestions from another thread here on the NMB regarding improving patination and did the following:

 

1) Washed it with hand soap and quite hot water, just using my hands. (Sure enough, it was no longer black, had a more natural brown colour, but a disappointing dull look, as though coated with Hersheys cocoa powder.)

2) Hung it outside on a covered porch, using a cord through the nakago ana.

3) Every couple of days brought it in and handled it all over, rubbing with my fingers, reasonably clean hands.

 

After about 2 1/5 weeks of this treatment it was looking much better so I brought it in and spent the couple of months just handling it, e.g. while watching TV, and it now has a presentable patina. One note: I live close to the ocean and have regular nighttime dampness and mists which sometimes have a certain salinity to them (I've never seen that measured, but items stored outside get rusty faster than in other places I've lived). I was concerned about it being too damp when I hung outside so watched it closely for the first few days but didn't see any active rust starting so maybe the damp, marine, climate helped with the process.

 

This ran longer than I meant to, but thought perhaps others might find some of the details of interest.

 

Cheers, Michael BC

 

[Spartancrest]

Hey Deanna, how many of these do you have?   https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/395949588982   Are they starting to breed lately?

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/d1162744741  They come in a nice chocolate flavour as well. 

 

Now this is getting silly https://www.jauce.com/auction/m1136083150  12 lobes! 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Spartancrest
EVEN MORE LINKS

[KungFooey]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:35 AM, Spartancrest said:

Hey Deanna, how many of these do you have?   https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/395949588982   Are they starting to breed lately?

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/d1162744741  They come in a nice chocolate flavour as well. 

 

Now this is getting silly https://www.jauce.com/auction/m1136083150  12 lobes! 

You caught me - I'm casting them now! 😉

[KungFooey]

On 11/28/2024 at 4:33 PM, Oldman said:

Earlier this year I acquired an iron tsuba. Before buying it I noticed in the listing photos that it had an odd, very glossy, black "patina" and asked the dealer if the patina had been redone or otherwise enhanced. He assured me that it had not. Upon receipt the patina still looked odd, almost like it had been painted with gloss black paint. When handling it I found that my hands felt a bit oily and it smelled like maybe 3 in 1 oil. I followed suggestions from another thread here on the NMB regarding improving patination and did the following:

 

1) Washed it with hand soap and quite hot water, just using my hands. (Sure enough, it was no longer black, had a more natural brown colour, but a disappointing dull look, as though coated with Hersheys cocoa powder.)

2) Hung it outside on a covered porch, using a cord through the nakago ana.

3) Every couple of days brought it in and handled it all over, rubbing with my fingers, reasonably clean hands.

 

After about 2 1/5 weeks of this treatment it was looking much better so I brought it in and spent the couple of months just handling it, e.g. while watching TV, and it now has a presentable patina. One note: I live close to the ocean and have regular nighttime dampness and mists which sometimes have a certain salinity to them (I've never seen that measured, but items stored outside get rusty faster than in other places I've lived). I was concerned about it being too damp when I hung outside so watched it closely for the first few days but didn't see any active rust starting so maybe the damp, marine, climate helped with the process.

 

This ran longer than I meant to, but thought perhaps others might find some of the details of interest.

 

Cheers, Michael BC

 

Real sorry for the late reply Michael!

That advice was very helpful indeed and I'm trying it myself now - I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

Thanks again!

Dee