Buying first tokubetsu hozon

[Michael Nihonto]

Quick question for all you experienced folks out there. If I have a budget of up to 12K USD to buy a sword and will be in Japan next year. Is it best to buy while I am in Japan or should I just buy online from a reputable dealer like Aoi Art? 

 

I like the ability to look online and do my research after a I find one I like. I am worried going into shops that speak English in Japan I will just get the tourist tax and end up paying too much anyway. I do have all the books and I am studying up but I do not think in a years time I can get anywhere close to educated enough to not get tricked in Japan, even with a papered sword.

 

Where do you think I will find the best value?

[Michael Nihonto]

here was one I was eyeing.

 

https://www.aoijapan...kubetsu-hozon-token/

[oli]

Don't buy papers, buy a blade

[Michael Nihonto]

I like the idea of having it papered. Authenticity and resale (hopefully not needed any time soon). Easier for me to trust it is what it says it is. 

 

I will buy a blade but only one with papers

[Michael Nihonto]

27 minutes ago, oli said:

Don't buy papers, buy a blade

any thoughts on buying said blade in Japan vs online through a reputable dealer?

[nulldevice]

To add to what @oli said, definitely buy a blade with papers, but don’t buy a blade just because it has papers. 
 

As you study you find schools, periods, smiths, that excite you. Seeing swords in person will confirm or change your thoughts and you’ll form an idea of what excited you and you can find an awesome sword with a $12k budget. 

[Katsujinken]

I’ve given this advice before, but in my opinion the $10-20k range can be something of a “danger zone” (and Darcy agreed when he was with us). 
 

You can find good blades for less than $10k that will wow you and are more likely to hold value and recoup the investment later should you ever want to “upgrade.” The same is true above $20k, generally. But in between contains a lot of variance (regardless of papers) and risk. Inflated prices due to TH papers, koshirae assembled to drive up the price, etc. It takes a good amount of experience to make good decisions in that price range. 
 

 

[Mark S.]

You’re going to have to narrow your search a bit.  What do you like?  What do you want?  What is your favorite smith/school/era/other.  You’re not just buying a blade because it is Tok Hozon or because it is $12,000.  If you walk into one of the larger dealer shops and say “I want to buy a blade for $12,000”, they will probably look at you and shrug their shoulders.  They probably have as many $12,000 blades as $5,000 blades.  A small shop may have 1 or 2 $12,000 blades and only show you what they have and you have to pick from that.  Study until you know what you want FIRST.

[atm]

4 hours ago, mbrobe said:

Is it best to buy while I am in Japan or should I just buy online from a reputable dealer like Aoi Art? 

Both are possible. You can research blades advertised online that are of interest and then see them in person while in Japan. Seeing them in person is superior to online only. For example, you may find that a sword looks good in pictures but appears tired in person. And there are many reputable Japanese dealers who post much of their inventory online with prices. You’ll get that same price if you buy from them in person. English speakers at Japanese sword shops can be hit or miss. Aoi Art, Touken Matsumoto, Ginza Seiyudo, and Japan Sword are just a few in Tokyo that I know have good English speakers.
 

Value varies, too. Some dealers have higher prices due to higher overhead, just like any other business. There are also really nice swords in the U.S. in your price range. You might attend one of the sword shows in Chicago, Las Vegas, San Francisco, or Orlando to see what’s available and to continue your learning. I’ve learned a ton by going to sword shows, asking questions, and examining swords.

[Tcat]

To answer your questions directly, it is best to buy in person in Japan, making purchase decisions based on inspections of swords and related artworks in hand. Not knowing the language shouldnt set you back too far. Buying online from photos is more risky, because you both need to know what you are looking at and rely on the honesty of dealer photos hoping they arnt playing tricks with the light / color / photoshop - which incidentally they sometimes do. Maybe narrow down further what you want from your sword other than TH papers, or perhaps what you dont want, and by process of elimination this can help you decide what your options are.

[Michael Nihonto]

This is all excellent advice and I really appreciate it!

 

Here is my plan....

 

1. Continue my education - learning more everyday. I love these types of hobbies and collecting. 

2. Confirm that my focus period is Shinto (1596-1763),,,,specifically early 1600's 1600-1650 ish

3. Gather a list of select blades hoping to see during visit in Japan.

4. Plan timing so my wife isn't too annoyed by my blade shopping.

 

I plan to have custom made koshirae with antique period correct fittings for my blade. Is this something most dealers can accommodate and ship my my blade when complete? I hear it takes 6 months to complete?

Is 200,000 yen a typical fair price for custom saya and tsuka (not including menuki, tsuba, fuchi kashira)?

 

Final question, how aggressive is negotiating in Japanese culture?

[Rivkin]

Its a weak blade suitable for someone who really likes Kotetsu and wants to collect everything associated with him.

Jigane is mute in places and coarse in others. Hamon has little distinction except foamy nie in its upper portion.

But then again maybe it really comes out full strength when viewed at an angle.

[Shugyosha]

Michael, 

I’d get to as many sword shows stateside as you can before you make the trip to Japan. It really helps to see blades of the kind of quality you’re looking for in-hand. 
 

Also, I’d be tempted to reach out to dealers over there as they may have or be able to get what you want and you’ll be able to do a deal in your first language. Check out the dealer pages in the for sale section on the forum: Grey Doffin, Ray Singer and Nick Rickupero are all true gentlemen to deal with. 

[Michael Nihonto]

I just bought a book from Grey and he is in Duluth,MN which is only a few hours from me

[Michael Nihonto]

Plan is changing as I learn more.
 

1. Continue my education - learning more everyday.

2. Thinking about raising my budget to entry level Juyo Token ~3.5 mil yen? (Seems to be an easier range to recover investment should I find something else I might want instead) I chose this approach as it seems easier to be ignorant when buying than going sub 10K?

3. Start buying YEN at favorable exchange rates. (loading up my wise account)

4. Maybe buy a sword in Japan with assistance from a guide or just buy from one of the amazing trusted local dealers 

5. Skip having custom Koshirae made since I will never have a high end sword put in it. I will keep in shirasaya and display a period correct koshirae with it.

6. Seriously consider if I should even make a Nihonto purchase and just admire from a far.

 

[GeorgeLuucas]

1 hour ago, Michael Nihonto said:

6. Seriously consider if I should even make a Nihonto purchase and just admire from a far.

Hi Michael, 

Exciting to get into the world of Nihonto! I'm right there with you. There's a sword show in Vegas coming up this January - a good excuse for a trip! 

For what it's worth, many of us perfectly enjoy our sub 10K swords. You'll still be able to enjoy finer swords from afar. We all want the best, but don't let that keep you from what's realistic for you. I love my BMW, knowing it's no Rolls Royce  

At your price range and into low level juyo, you will have a lot of interesting pieces to choose from when the time is right and you have the knowledge.
Best of luck,
-Sam 
 

 

Edited November 27, 2024 by GeorgeLuucas
Added vegas show link

[Shugyosha]

Hi Michael,

Time, experience and research are your friends. Many of us jumped into this with both feet and regretted it (a bit) later so taking your time and expanding your knowledge and budget will not do you any harm. Other big US shows are in Orlando and San Francisco if that helps:

https://orlandoswordshow.com/

 

http://www.ncjsc.org/SF_token_kai.htm