Koto with a cutting test

[Alex A]

A rarity

 

Wakizashi: Mumei(Unsigned)(Omiya)with Saidan-mei(NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon Token) - Japanese Sword Shop Aoi-Art

[Alex A]

Find it amazing that folks moan about political stuff and state stuff like "post more nihonto" and not one comment at all about a sword that you seldom come across.

 

I guess folks seem to prefer politics.

[Lewis B]

Yes rare. This is a katana I almost bought through Darcy back in 2021, but timing was bad after losing my job. Nanbokucho Sadatsuna with a cutting test and #62 Torokusho registration paper so early and Daimyo owned. Apart from a Kaneuji blade (#17) this is the earliest registration I've encountered. 

 

https://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1907-K01.html

[atm]

Thanks for posting @Alex A. A friendly suggestion: you might generate more discussion if you offer more detailed thoughts of your own or pose a question. That would give others something to react to.

 

Koto with saidan-mei are rare, but they are out there. I think I’ve seen 5 or 6 in the last year on dealer websites, including several on AOI Art. AOI has another one here: Taima Tomokiyo, although it is tired. I’d like to own a koto with cutting test, but I’ll wait for something better.

[Alex A]

Ok, next time i bother i will do a complete write-up to earn some thoughts.

 

Cheers

[nulldevice]

I suppose I should read Sesko's book on cutting tests but I have wondered on shorter blades like this one that are barely the width of a human torso/waist how a "complete cut" would be registered. Say a cutting test with 2 or 3 bodies and the tester has a 19" sword like this one, a human swinging in an arc (or maybe their technique was fairly vertical) does it have to completely cut through the body side to side in order to "count"? Or if it cut clean through but only cut 2/3 or 3/4 width wise did that count? 

 

Its sort of gruesome to think about but as I've seen some wakizashi and this shortened naginata with saidan-mei its something that comes to mind for me moreso than for 27" blades which seem more than adequate to cut clean through someone. I suspect I need to just read more on the topic. 

[atm]

I have wondered that, too, @nulldevice, especially when they reflect a multiple-body test. I only recently purchased Sesko’s book, so I haven’t read all its 378 pages. Here’s a partial answer from it about the process:

 

“These special kiri-tsuka had not only the function to provide a more robust hilt but served also as additional weight. The heavier the blade the more power there was in the cut and the better a blade would cut into or through a target. Apart from that, kiri-tsuka were also used to test ko-wakizashi and tantō under the same conditions as long swords. Normally mounted, such blades are too short and too light to enter a test medium in a representative manner.”

 

He also talks about using lead tsuba to increase the weight of ko-wakizashi and tanto. But I don’t yet know if he discusses the definition of a complete cut with these short blades.

[nulldevice]

Thanks for that @atm, it looks like I have some reading to do. That's interesting to me how the swords were given extra mass to help with the cut. I wonder how far this practice went and how it may have lead to an uneven playing field? i.e. certain testers weighing their swords down more thus having more cutting power vs other testers. It certainly seems to add some flexibility to the cutting tests and more context that interests me to study further.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The Yamada family preferred the body in a lateral position (sokuga'i), as it allowed testing of Wakizashi and Tanto. Tests were conducted with special kiri-tsuka (there some mentions of specially weighted Tsuba used) which were to simulate Koshirae and assist with the cut as well. Wakizashi & Tanto were tested with this kiri-tsuka so they could be used in the same manner as a long sword.

 

The practice of Tameshigiri by the large families was quite systematic and sophisticated for the time.

 

[Tcat]

Nice share. I have seen a few older blades like this but not so many. Handsome blade.

[Alex A]

Thanks for the replies.

 

What i find interesting is the inscription Aoi mention, below.

 

"We do not understand the meaning of the Inscription well, but it seems to mean that Yamano Kanjuro cut off the body with one hand."

 

This gets me wondering if the sword was actually used as in an ordinary strike by a wakizashi with one hand, without it being attached to a pole of some sorts (as mentioned above)?

 

Also, i ask myself why would one test a very old unsigned wakizashi ??. I guess there a lots of answers to this question.

 

Can imagine someone owning something like a Tadayoshi Katana and wanting it testing, the prestige of owning a sword of the same time that comes with all the bells and whistles, so to speak. The bragging value, even swordsmiths of the time pushing to have their swords highly evaluated,.

 

But an unsigned suriage wak from the Nanbokucho era?, i find interesting.

 

Perhaps it was someone's prized possession, who knows?,  could go on but can only speculate and i guess we will never know.

 

What i will say about those inscriptions, as gruesome as they are, they always add some history to a blade.

 

Been a long time since i read the book from Markus and have a memory like a sieve, need to read it again,

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

9 hours ago, atm said:

 

 

Koto with saidan-mei are rare, but they are out there. I think I’ve seen 5 or 6 in the last year on dealer websites, including several on AOI Art. AOI has another one here: Taima Tomokiyo, although it is tired. I’d like to own a koto with cutting test, but I’ll wait for something better.

 

Cheers, will take a look over that one.

 

Like Buses, you wait and 2 turn up at once.

[Gakusee]

1 hour ago, Alex A said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

What i find interesting is the inscription Aoi mention, below.

 

"We do not understand the meaning of the Inscription well, but it seems to mean that Yamano Kanjuro cut off the body with one hand."

 

This gets me wondering if the sword was actually used as in an ordinary strike by a wakizashi with one hand, without it being attached to a pole of some sorts (as mentioned above)?

 

Also, i ask myself why would one test a very old unsigned wakizashi ??. I guess there a lots of answers to this question.

 

Can imagine someone owning something like a Tadayoshi Katana and wanting it testing, the prestige of owning a sword of the same time that comes with all the bells and whistles, so to speak. The bragging value, even swordsmiths of the time pushing to have their swords highly evaluated,.

 

But an unsigned suriage wak from the Nanbokucho era?, i find interesting.

 

Perhaps it was someone's prized possession, who knows?,  could go on but can only speculate and i guess we will never know.

 

What i will say about those inscriptions, as gruesome as they are, they always add some history to a blade.

 

Been a long time since i read the book from Markus and have a memory like a sieve, need to read it again,

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, a couple of thoughts. Naginata were not always as “artistic” as normal tachi or katana. This is not to say they were not well built but the main focus was on functionality rather than fine jigane, scintillating hamon, beautiful hataraki,  etc. So, on average I have noticed, anecdotally, they are more robust. 
 

Also, if you notice the weight of this blade, it is actually rather heavy for its short length. Therefore it must be thick and robust and it renders itself suitable for testing once the long tsuka mentioned above is attached. 

[Alex A]

Aye Michael, 580 grams at 50cm. Love the shape with the o-kissaki

 

Was it attached to a pole for the test though?(as per Aoi interpretation), the big question.

 

 

 

 

 

[Schneeds]

I've look at it a few times, being partial to Omiya School in general I always enjoy it when one pops up.  That o-kissaki is gorgeously wicked.   I'm guessing around 9cm in length and a robust blade overall, it does stand out.   

[PNSSHOGUN]

A Juyo Tadamitsu Wakizashi with cutting test by the Yamano family, also noting it cut through the chest with one hand: https://nihonto.com/6-1-24/




 

[KungFooey]

Really interesting subject.

I once read that the guy who started the NTHK (can't remember his name) was a policeman who had to cut off criminals heads. He said a wakizashi was better for the job than a long sword.

[atm]

Interesting @PNSSHOGUN—that Tadamitsu wakizashi was for sale at Aoi Art for a couple of years. It sold in June of this year. Aoi Art had it listed for 6,000,000 JPY.

[Bazza]

I have a nidai Tadahiro wakizashi (unpapered) that in the hand just feels as if it is begging to be put to work...   Mmmmm, I can imagine a Samurai of yore with the same sword in his hand wondering 'if it would...'

 

BaZZa.

[Alex A]

Though rare, obviously a point has been made that they are around if one looks hard enough.

 

I guess you don't find what you usually don't look for.

 

Ps, Good find John, especially with a similar inscription!

[cluckdaddy76]

Alex, thanks for the post. If this is still available when my bonus comes in this spring, you will have sold this one for them. It actually ticks a couple boxes for me in terms of a purchase, mainly the kissaki and the test inscription. You even have me starting to think about parting with a couple of my current collection now and grabbing this up. I do like this piece, and it is under $10 K. 

 

Jason

[Schneeds]

Edit: my info was wrong. 

[SteveM]

11 minutes ago, Schneeds said:

it seems the numbers actually refer to a location where the cut took place on the body, rather than the number of bodies,

 

No, this is not correct. There is a video somewhere of a guy who mistranslated some stuff and made this claim, and that video is causing this misinformation to ricochet around. In most cases, the number on the cutting test inscription refers to the number of bodies cut. 

[Schneeds]

Ah OK, thank you. 

[Bruce Pennington]

On 11/22/2024 at 7:51 AM, Alex A said:

A rarity

 

Wakizashi: Mumei(Unsigned)(Omiya)with Saidan-mei(NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon Token) - Japanese Sword Shop Aoi-Art

@SteveM

 

Aoi Art says the cutter was Yamano Kanjuro, tested early Spring 1934

Do you concur with the name?  I ask because his kakihan (kao) is identical to a cutter in the 1600's by the name of Nagahisa:

Kanjuro

Nagahisa

[Nobody]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

@SteveM

 

Aoi Art says the cutter was Yamano Kanjuro, tested early Spring 1934

Do you concur with the name?  I ask because his kakihan (kao) is identical to a cutter in the 1600's by the name of Nagahisa:

Kanjuro

 

.....................................................

 

There are several misunderstandings.

1.       Aoi Art says that early spring 1934 is the date when Kanzan wrote the sayagaki.

2.       The correct date when the sayagaki was written is early spring in 1968. This is Aoi Art’s mistake.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

So, the cut tester was Kanjuro, but we don't have a date?  Sorry for the rookie questions, but in this, I really am a rookie!

[SteveM]

10 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Do you concur with the name?  I ask because his kakihan (kao) is identical to a cutter in the 1600's by the name of Nagahisa:

Kanjuro

 

 

The inscription is Yamano Kanjuro, but you are right in that the kaō does indeed look exactly like Nagahisa's kaō.

 

 I'll assume that the NBTHK didn't find anything suspicious in the cutting test mei (otherwise they might have made the subtle notation "to saidan mei ga aru" (i.e. "there is a cutting test inscription which says.....").

 

This is their way of distancing themselves from any validation on the cutting test inscription. In other words, they use that phrase when they want to say "the sword is from so-and-so, and by the way there is also a cutting test inscription, but we make no claim about the validity of the cutting test inscription". 

 

But yes, an interesting observation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

Never heard that one before.

 

Was always under the impression that if they had any doubt about a cutting test inscription then they simply would not paper a sword.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Steve!  I'll just note that on the file.