Enquiry about ryo mokko gata tsuba

[Jesta]

I picked this one up on a whim, mostly because I liked the unusual shape, and the the autumn theme. 

Can anyone shed any light on the school or origins of this type of design? I can’t seem to find many that have this symmetrical ryo mokko gata design.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Justyn,

many later TSUBA cannot be related to a specific school, as designs and techniques spread around and were widely copied.

This one looks like a very late but very good TSUBA with autumn theme, probably the shape is also called MOMO GATA.

[Gunome]

What about an Umetada school influence ?

[Steves87]

Also nown as futatsu-mokko-gata.

Very nice guard by the way, congratulations!

[Spartancrest]

A paperweight a little like some of the features with Ajiro [mat background] but not the same shape.

    https://world.seiyud...m/product/tu-120515/  shape?

 

As Steve has pointed out futatsu-mokko-gata could be the shape it is usually associated with Musashi Namako tsuba but they are sukashi not solid plate  One reference calls the shape "Kaigu Tsuba"

https://ho-sui.com/en/products/鍔-つば-武蔵   that site sells replica tsuba so I doubt the name is accurate.

[Jesta]

15 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

As Steve has pointed out futatsu-mokko-gata could be the shape it is usually associated with Musashi Namako tsuba but they are sukashi not solid plate  One reference calls the shape "Kaigu Tsuba"

https://ho-sui.com/en/products/鍔-つば-武蔵   that site sells replica tsuba so I doubt the name is accurate.

Thanks, you are always a reliable source of knowledge and references. The only ones I have been able to find with the top and bottom indents are the sukashi type, until your tanto tsuba.

[Spartancrest]

An incidental outline shape from the Klefischauktionen collection. No information on it unfortunately. The shape seems very rare, I have looked through 3,000 tsuba images and only found two, other than yours! [So far ]

 

   This one may well be the ura of the other? 

[Jesta]

Thanks for looking so hard. I couldn’t find any.

 

Those are beautiful. 

[Spartancrest]

Starting to find others - this one tilted over 90 degrees, does that count?   https://www.jauce.com/auction/p1118290518

 

 

   Smooth sided Myoga  https://www.honto-nihonto.com/en/sue-tegai .

While there are many Myoga tsuba like this design, they are more Kawari-gata because of the indents for the sides of the flowers/leaves (?) so I don't think they would count. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Spartancrest
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[Steves87]

Futatsu means two (like, two lobes), in what context im not entirely sure though... and admittedly, i got it from Sesko's sword encyclopaedia in the mokko section.

[Jesta]

30 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

Starting to find others - this one tilted over 90 degrees, does that count?   https://www.jauce.com/auction/p1118290518

 

 

  Smooth sided Myoga  https://www.honto-nihonto.com/en/sue-tegai .

While there are many Myoga tsuba like this design, they are more Kawari-gata because of the indents for the sides of the flowers/leaves (?) so I don't think they would count. 

90 degrees is interesting, and I would say that it counts for this taxonomy… Twin lobes, mirrored. 

The Myoga tsuba is really nice. 

 

I remain in awe of your sleuthing abilities… 

[Spartancrest]

I have sixteen images of double "Sho" woodwind instrument like a Pan pipe but I am not sure they qualify because the top and bottom indents are not the same? These are from my utsushi records - no big surprise just how many of the same designs get produced, yet each is an individual not a cast copy. 

 

I may as well throw in a Shingen from the Warsaw museum as well 

 

Make that 17 "Sho" 

Edited 22 hours ago by Spartancrest
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[sabiji]

I had a sukashi kanayama with constrictions at 3 and 9 o'clock, not at 12 and 6 o'clock as is so often the case here. Officially, the papers said Ryo-Mokko-Gata, but an expert told me that at least my tsuba was based on the shape of the Kemari ball. That seemed very plausible in my case.

[Spartancrest]

I found a "Do it yourself Futatsu"   just a little work with a hammer!

 

NAH! I don't think so.

 

[Spartancrest]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/296351643175

   Is it just me or does this look like Grover kissing a mirror or two Proboscis monkeys ?