WW2 Shin Gunto with older Blade question

[Tropen]

Hello,

 

I was directed to this forum as I wanted to buy a Shin Gunto for many years now but never had the opportunity for a decent one (living in Europe and having no contacts in that field). Now that I graduate I wanted to get one. I have found the Shin Gunto pictured below. I would be happy if someone could tell me the approximate age and the quality of the blade (Also maybe how you determine the quality and age of a blade).

The cap of the saya is missing and below the leather it seems that there is some kind of cloth. 
Overall I like the used look of it.

 

The original pictures can be found here: https://richard-mili...erkampfhuelle/M73177

 

Kind Regards

Kjell

 

 

[Tropen]

Here the rest of the pictures:

[Jcstroud]

My guess late war Takayama - to,oil quenched modified for standard army kosherai.not stainless

[Gilles]

Overall condition is average, the blade seems to be old (before 1868) but not discernible in that condition which is not good. Price is quite high for that stuff.

I will wait for a better one but it is up to you.

[Tropen]

Thank you both for the reply! I wanted to make an offer as I also thought the price might be pretty high. I honestly have no idea how much the sword in that condition is worth. Is it allowed to ask how much the sword in that condition is worth? 
I’m not sure where else to look. I can’t buy them from outside the EU due having trouble with customs. Are there any sellers in the EU that sell Shin Guntos?

I sometimes see them in auctions but they are pretty poor condition or very expensive.

I know of 2 seller but their Shin Guntos are outside my budget.

 

Greetings

Kjell

[GeorgeLuucas]

If you're looking for piece of militaria from WW2 era Japan, this is a decent option. I can't say how much it's worth, but i've seen similar gunto, in a much better state of polish and condition, for lower prices. I've seen some in the EU pop up on this website in the "For Sale or Trade" section, so keep an eye on that. 

If you're looking for a Nihonto, to appreciate the workmanship and the steel, then this is a bad option - because its condition obscures the details of the blade. 

As far as determining how old a blade is without a confirmed date? That takes a carefully trained eye, experience, knowhow, and the proper photos or a blade in-hand. I've been working on that and my "Kantei" ability for a few years now, and I have barely scratched the surface. But i'm a slow learner 

https://markussesko.com/kantei/
https://swordsofjapan.com/kantei-is-easy/

Just my two cents.
Best of luck,
-Sam

[Tropen]

Hi Sam,

 

yes, I’m only looking for a ww2 sword as I collect ww2 stuff. I want to add a Japanese Type 90 helmet and a shin gunto in the future. A older high quality sword doesn’t fit to the theme of my collection and I probably can’t afford them anyways.

I will think about it and maybe make an offer with which I can live. 
Thanks for the links and the tip with the for sale section. I will definitely have a look.

 

Greetings

Kjell

[GeorgeLuucas]

Good to hear. I also like WW2 stuff and like to collect it. 
 

Another thing to be aware of is the blade length (measurement from notch at the spine to the blade tip). This is called the Nagasa. Length can be a big factor in price. 
 

If it’s been shortened to wakizashi length, then it’s way overpriced in my novice opinion. If it’s katana length or more (60.6cm+), then the price is a bit closer. 
 

Best of luck, 

-Sam 

(photo from Hanbon Forge website) 

[Tropen]

I will think about it if it’s worth it for me. Currently I can’t see myself making an offer that the seller might accept.

If it’s katana length would 1900 euros (2000 USD) be somewhat of a fair price for the sword in Europe?

 

Greetings

Kjell

[GeorgeLuucas]

It’s more than I would personally pay for it, given the photos and info provided. I don’t think I would bid on it unless I saw it in person and confirmed it looked right, and there weren’t any major unseen issues. 
 

I think you could get something much cooler as a WW2 katana if you wait for the right piece. I’d recommend posting in the ‘wanted to buy’ section and seeing if anyone in the EU is selling gunto.  

I don’t usually like talking prices on here. Some consider it taboo because nobody wants to be between a seller and a sale - so I’m going out on a limb and hoping for the best. @Brian can maybe help clarify if it’s a forum rules thing.

Happy collecting! 

All the best,

-Sam

[Tropen]

Ok, thank you for the heads up and for taking your time to answer my questions Sam! I will pass on that sword and wait for another one. I will keep an eye out on the for sale section.

Thanks to everybody that replied!

 

Best Regards

Kjell

[Brian]

8 hours ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

I don’t usually like talking prices on here. Some consider it taboo because nobody wants to be between a seller and a sale - so I’m going out on a limb and hoping for the best. @Brian can maybe help clarify if it’s a forum rules thing.

 

Nope, we do not prohibit that, as long as it is within reason and common sense. Pricing isn't the focus, but if it's relevant and necessary then it's allowed. We try balance the best interests of the buyer and seller.

[Polaria]

14 hours ago, Tropen said:

Ok, thank you for the heads up and for taking your time to answer my questions Sam! I will pass on that sword and wait for another one. I will keep an eye out on the for sale section.

Thanks to everybody that replied!

 

Best Regards

Kjell

Unless you are dead set that the seller has to be within EU, I suggest you take a look at what is available in UK market. There are quite a lot of guntos on sale there due to UK history as colonial power and fighting against Japanese in east Asia during WW2.

[Tropen]

I one time bought something outside the EU with all the necessary paperwork and customs was just a troublemaker. Didn’t except my paperwork and wanted me to pay for stuff that I didn’t need. After a couple weeks they somewhat admitted that they were wrong and gave me my item. And that only because I got in contact with someone that has authority.
Because of that I don’t want to deal with them anymore. They try to search for the smallest things. I could very well imagine that they look at a shin gunto and might see that the handle has ray skin. Then they ask what kind of ray, is it protected and so on. Not worth the trouble in my opinion.