Supein Nihonto Katchu ???

[Lukrez]

hello everyone 

 

I discovered this site, the seller offers antique yoroi, with information that aroused my skepticism. In my opinion, the yoroi look far too well preserved to be from the Muromachi or early Edo period. Is this perhaps just due to the obviously new paintwork, lacquer or do you share my suspicion that the offers are too good to be true?

 

https://www.supeinni.../armor/gusoku-yoroi/

[Lewis B]

Caveat Emptor re that dealer. Examples of (recent) poor experiences both here and on other forums.

 

[Lukrez]

Which poor experiences do you mean? Where can i find the Reviews?

[Lewis B]

A couple to review

https://sbg-sword-fo...ity-purchased-katana

 

 

[Lukrez]

Thanks!

 

What are your thoughts about the quality of the yoroi? Is there nothing to worry about or is IT ridiculously clear, that Something is completely inaccurate?

[Lewis B]

I don't know enough about Yoroi to pass judgement. What I can say is that I refuse to support businesses with questionable ethics, hence the Caveate Emptor comment.

[uwe]

Hi and welcome Georg!

 

To which of this sets you’re referring?

A mix of old, new and badly “restored” parts on this page…

[Lukrez]

Hallo Uwe,

 

ich hoffe, es geht in Ordnung, wenn ich dir direkt auf deutsch Antworte. Tatsächlich halte ich länger Ausschau nauch einer O-Yoroi aus der Prä- oder frühen Edo-Zeit. Der genannte Händler hatte bereits das eine oder andere interessante Los. Doch je genauer ich mir die Objekte angeschaut habe, desto mehr Zweifel wurden geweckt. Beispielsweise die folgende Yoroi, scheinbar aus der Sengoku Zeit kann doch in keinem Fall so gut erhalten sein, bzw. scheint in jeder Hinsicht so gut restauriert zu sein, dass es final einer neuen Yoroi gleich kommt:

 

https://www.supeinni...soku-warring-states/

 

[Lukrez]

Same in English: In fact, I've been looking for an O-Yoroi from the pre- or early Edo period for a long time. The dealer mentioned already had one or two interesting lots. But the more closely I looked at the objects, the more doubts were raised. For example, the following Yoroi, apparently from the Sengoku period, can in no way be so well preserved, or seems to have been so well restored in every respect that it ultimately resembles a new Yoroi:

https://www.supeinni...soku-warring-states/

[Lukrez]

15 hours ago, Lewis B said:

I don't know enough about Yoroi to pass judgement. What I can say is that I refuse to support businesses with questionable ethics, hence the Caveate Emptor comment.

Thanks for the warning sign.

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, Lukrez said:

Same in English: In fact, I've been looking for an O-Yoroi from the pre- or early Edo period for a long time. The dealer mentioned already had one or two interesting lots. But the more closely I looked at the objects, the more doubts were raised. For example, the following Yoroi, apparently from the Sengoku period, can in no way be so well preserved, or seems to have been so well restored in every respect that it ultimately resembles a new Yoroi:

https://www.supeinni...soku-warring-states/

You only have to read the description for the alarm bells to ring. So much of the fastenings and lacings suggest recent. No images of the interior facia. And the final sale, no returns disclaimer. Enough said.

[Lukrez]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

You only have to read the description for the alarm bells to ring. So much of the fastenings and lacings suggest recent. No images of the interior facia. And the final sale, no returns disclaimer. Enough said.

 

I completely agree with you

[Lukrez]

How reliable are they TOKUBETSU KICHO Judgement paper (of the Japanese armor society) in general?

[uwe]

Hi Lukrez,

 

on your example above, the dealer did not skimp on oil! Hence the shiny look. Sengoku period? Rather not…

 

The there offered Ō-Yoroi seems quite recent, IMHO.

 

 

[Luc T]

Lukrez,   You are looking for a pre edo Ooyoroi?   Sorry, not possible.  There are very few, and they all are in museums ore temples.  There is only one in the west, in the Metropolitan NY.  Late edo is possible.

[uwe]

Don’t forget Munich, Luc 😉

[Lukrez]

Hello everyone, I thought so, I was just surprised that so many supposedly authentic artifacts are offered on the Internet. 
Seems to be primarily a dream factory where people's wishful thinking is played with.

[Iekatsu]

Sadly the way of the world, the best thing to do is research and train your eye.