Something to do with the Sun Goddess Amaterasu?

[djcollection]

 

Here's a tsuba with design of the rays from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu shining from her cave retreat while Amenokoyane forces the rock door open

https://collections.mfa.org/objects/11762

 

I have a tsuba with a similar drum and rooster. Does anyone have more information on it?

[djcollection]

Here's mine.

[Spartancrest]

All I can find are two with the same type of drum, no rooster. 

[Matsunoki]

The 2 above show the stage, drum, curtain etc for a gagaku performance.

out of interest I owned the lower (brass) one in Dale’s image above. Sold it over twenty years ago. Bought if for £100 from memory. Those days long gone!

[Spartancrest]

11 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Bought if for £100 from memory. Those days long gone!

Estimate at the auction was    Est: €1,600 EUR - €1,920 EUR  November 08, 2013  I can only imagine what it would cost today!

 

 Cockerel on a drum nothing like the style we are looking for. 

 

 This has the triple tomoe [mitsudomoe (三ツ巴)] on the drum head.

[Matsunoki]

5 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Estimate at the auction was    Est: €1,600 EUR - €1,920 EUR  November 08, 2013  I can only imagine wh

Memory cell has sparked…..I sold it through Sothebys Bond Street eons ago and it was bought by the (late) Barry Davis…a Mayfair based  Japanese Art dealer with a stunning gallery. He was sitting near me in the sale and I heard him say something like…”when you see one like that you’ve got to buy it” . It was actually more like 35 years ago and I believe I did quite well on it🙂. The image above does not do it justice. Memories of exciting times. 

[Jake6500]

On 10/16/2024 at 7:44 PM, djcollection said:

 

Here's a tsuba with design of the rays from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu shining from her cave retreat while Amenokoyane forces the rock door open

https://collections.mfa.org/objects/11762

 

I have a tsuba with a similar drum and rooster. Does anyone have more information on it?

 

So the relevance of the Taiko drum here appears to relate to the contents of the Nihon Shoki which mentions a mythical account for the origin of the Taiko drum in Japan. It states that the Taiko drum was first created when the goddess Ame-No-Uzume emptied out a barrel of sake and danced on top of it in order to lure Amaterasu out from her cave. This dance performance is the mythical origin of Taiko music. 

 

It seems likely to me that ALL of these tsuba featuring the drum and the rooster are references to the story of Amaterasu and the attempts to lure her out of her cave. Note that the mitsudomoe is a symbol often featured on Taiko drums, specifically.

[Matsunoki]

17 minutes ago, Jake6500 said:

It seems likely to me that ALL of these tsuba featuring the drum and the rooster are references to the story of Amaterasu and the attempts to lure her out of her cave. Note that the mitsudomoe is a symbol often featured on Taiko drums, specifically.

 

17 minutes ago, Jake6500 said:

 

The  drum with cockerel/chicken perched upon it is generally accepted as symbolic of peace……”the drums of war beat no more” type of thing. I’ve never encountered it in connection with Amaterasu.

See legends in Japanese art…….

 

 

[Spartancrest]

On 10/17/2024 at 5:15 AM, Matsunoki said:

Memories of exciting times. 

Getting totally  but I just found a daisho with a similar theme to the one you had Colin  - in Iron  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/395806842143

I don't know but a daisho that looks that intact seems very reasonably priced, I thought it would be worth more than what it is being offered for?

[Ian B3HR2UH]

They look like two tsuba with similar themes and by different makers that have been put together to try and sell as a Daisho set

[Spartancrest]

10 minutes ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

two tsuba with similar themes and by different makers

Probably correct, I thought the smaller one was like a "closer up" image of the same view - but there are a lot of cobbled together "Daisho" 

[Jake6500]

On 10/18/2024 at 12:10 AM, Matsunoki said:

 

 

The  drum with cockerel/chicken perched upon it is generally accepted as symbolic of peace……”the drums of war beat no more” type of thing. I’ve never encountered it in connection with Amaterasu.

See legends in Japanese art…….

 

 

 

Interesting reference to Chinese culture which of course was directly linked to early Japanese culture.

 

Here is some more information about the link between the story of Amaterasu and the Taiko drum:

 

Konagaya, Hideyo.   University of Pennsylvania ProQuest Dissertations & Theses,  2007. 3260933.

https://www.proquest...e=gscholar&cbl=18750

 

 

Finding articles with pertinent info has sure gotten harder without access to Jstor! Maybe I should pay for a subscription. Anyways, given your post and the knowledge imparted I now think that there might be two separate themes in this thread!

 

Mason's example tsuba (and probably also his own tsuba given the resemblance in the two designs) seems to be about the story of Amaterasu in the Nihon Shoki whilst the other tsuba in the thread seem to be references to Chinese culture. I think the defining differences seem to be A) whether or not the Taiko is being played by a person? B) If the chicken is atop the drum it is a clear indication of the latter rather than the former?