What do I Have Here. Lots of Pics.

[Mikebiker]

This is a sword that came with others I purchased form a lady last week. It was collected by her father who was a Colonel stationed in Japan and related areas after the war. I am trying to find out all I can about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, M.Lee, what do you have? You have a very good camera, a sword blade and a set of fittings, with a businesslike Tsuba.

The Fuchi Mei is upside down.

The Nakago Mei reads

  Reveal hidden contents

備前国住長船祐定 天正十年八月xx

 

[John A Stuart]

Interesting, your fuchi is signed Soheishi Nyudo Soten. I don't know if legit as there is many copiers of this style. John

[Mikebiker]

I can't see what you written as a spoiler for the Mei. I am just looking for some info on the sword age maker and such.

 

I have also fixed the Fuchi Mei.

[John A Stuart]

The part Piers put in kanji for the maker 備前国住長船祐定 reads Bizen no Kuni Ju Osafune Sukesada. John

[John A Stuart]

The date is 天正 Tensho 十 Ju 年 Nen 八 Hachi 月 Gatsu, 1582 August. I can't read the next kanji either, but, might be 六 roku 日 ka, the sixth day. John

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6595&p=51803#p51803

[John A Stuart]

:lol: :lol: In two places at the same time!!!? John

[Mikebiker]

I guess I need to explain that I know virtually nothing about these things except they are neat. I collect guns and knives and nearly all of them are US made and I know a great deal about them. When it comes to the Japanese swords I know just enough to get in trouble. I got a good deal on about 10 foreign made knives including 5 Japanese items. Two are WWII era items and were easy to completely identify and I now know exactly what they are. Three items are of this type and I need serious help in figuring out just what I have. I know it is hard to nail down this stuff to a certainty but what is you overall opinion of the sword and fittings. Is it old or not so old. Are the fittings good work or junk. I do know the sheath is of typical WWI configuration for an officer with the leather wrap. I posted this here because I could see it is a forum with people interested in original old swords and not all the new recent made stuff. Any help or opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lee

[John A Stuart]

You are doing alright Lee, not knowing how much you have invested in these pieces, NOMB, at least you have the real deal and have jumped the replica/ copy/ fake hurdles. Now you have to decide how much to put them in good nick. John

[Bazza]

  Bugyotsuji said:

Well, M.Lee, what do you have? You have a very good camera, a sword blade and a set of fittings, with a businesslike Tsuba.

I'm sure I'm going to state the obvious to many of you, and I apologise for that, but for the others - everyone reading this PLEASE NOTE. Not only does Lee Walker have a good camera, he has also chosen his images with great care (there must have been a dud or two!!), but more importantly he has CROPPED HIS IMAGES to exclude extraneous, non-essential background. Would that all our enquirers were so thoughtful. I'm reminded of the old adage "One picture is worth a thousand words", but only if that picture is carefully composed and prepared.

 

Happy New Year,

Barry Thomas.

[Chishiki]

Hi Lee. What do you have? Opinions will vary depending on peoples levels of knowledge and experience in collecting. When I first started collecting this is a sword I would have been excited about. It is a genuine old Japanese Samurai Sword. Probably dating to the late koto period, late 1500's but we have to allow some variation here as we are only going by photos The mounts are antique. The scabbard may be an old one covered with a protective leather sleeve for ww2 use, a combat cover

 

You ask about the quality. Through my jaded critical eyes I zero in on the negatives, and I don't mean to put your sword down. As I said, I would have been excited to own it once and the blade itself may be interesting to study but cannot judge its quality simply by a few photos. It is signed and dated to Bizen Sukesada, Tensho period. Personally I have some doubts that the mei is correct. There are many many swords out there with this mei, but the mei on genuine ones I have seen either in hand or on the net are constructed better. The kanji in the mei on your sword seem to stray a bit particularly on the date side. If the sword is genuine I doubt it is one of the mainline Sukesada, and may be what we call a kazu uchi mono of the period, a mass produced sword of its time. I lean toward gimei/fake however it could be a sword from bizen province.

 

The mounts are lower end as far as quality goes but the theme is always popular with collectors. Having said all that, it is the 'real deal' in terms of it being a antique sword with period mounts, not an easy find these days. And for someone who may just want to 'own' a samurai sword it is ok. I actually had a Bizen Sukesada found here, sent for polish and received Hozon Papers. It was also dated tensho period, a bit early than yours. Your sword does not compare in form and quality, based on the photos.

 

But, I have a lot of humble pie in the fridge and will stuff myself if I am wrong. Just to add, I am by no means an expert.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[nagamaki - Franco]

Happy New Years Lee, and All,

 

  Mikebiker said:

Three items are of this type and I need serious help in figuring out just what I have. I know it is hard to nail down this stuff to a certainty but what is you overall opinion of the sword and fittings. Is it old or not so old. Are the fittings good work or junk. I do know the sheath is of typical WWI configuration for an officer with the leather wrap. I posted this here because I could see it is a forum with people interested in original old swords and not all the new recent made stuff. Any help or opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lee

 

Lee, now that you're accumulating swords, if you're serious you will do the same with nihonto books.

 

  John A Stuart said:

The date is 天正 Tensho 十 Ju 年 Nen 八 Hachi 月 Gatsu, 1582 August. I can't read the next kanji either, but, might be 六 roku 日 ka, the sixth day. John

  John A Stuart said:

The part Piers put in kanji for the maker 備前国住長船祐定 reads Bizen no Kuni Ju Osafune Sukesada. John

 

 

IMHO, what you have here is a late Koto, Momoyama period, Bizen tradition, "school work" sword. While a smith's name appears on the nakago, in this case Sukesada, I have much doubt it is a personal signature, but rather a school signature. Kind of like Winchester or Remington would be, only not exactly. If submitted to shinsa for verification there is a good chance this sword would paper as an accepted school work signature. (Personally I would not bother submiting a sword like this to shinsa, it is what it is imo). Study and learn about late Koto nihonto production and more specifically about what was occurring with Bizen at this time.

 

 

Fittings:

 

  John A Stuart said:

Interesting, your fuchi is signed Soheishi Nyudo Soten. I don't know if legit as there is many copiers of this style. John

 

IMHO, again, school work. Search Soten images on the internet and see what's out there and visually compare.

 

also see http://www.archive.org/stream/japaneseswordits20guns/japaneseswordits20guns_djvu.txt .

 

When it comes to nihonto, be it swords or fittings, there are simply no shortcuts. The more you see and study, especially the good stuff, the more you'll learn. Critical analysis of our own stuff is essential!

[Brian]

  John A Stuart said:

:lol: :lol: In two places at the same time!!!? John

Duplicate post deleted. Please don't open more than one topic for the same item folks.

 

Brian

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

  John A Stuart said:

The date is 天正 Tensho 十 Ju 年 Nen 八 Hachi 月 Gatsu, 1582 August. I can't read the next kanji either, but, might be 六 roku 日 ka, the sixth day. John

 

 

The last two characters are 吉月 Kichi jitsu (a luchky day).

[John A Stuart]

I could not read it in this thread Jacques, but, when I looked in the other thread there was an additional picture that made the last two kanji clear. I didn't bother changing it as it was already posted, hence my laughing. I should as well have used 'nichi' or 'jitsu', don't know why I used 'ka'. John

[Mikebiker]

Thanks for your help and information. I now have a much better understanding of the sword.

Lee

[lonely panet]

l like bizen blades of that period, if you wont to move it on one day i would be interest mr walker.

regards Hamish