Lewis B Posted October 11 Report Posted October 11 I am the new custodian of the blade that was recently discussed on the forum. With Walter's kind permission I wanted to continue the discussion as an interesting academic exercise as well as a warning to others that rogue dealers are unfortunately at large and will take advantage of the unwary. Rather than post the name publicly I am happy to forward the details of the dealer who is often found selling on Catawiki. The nice burnt orange urushi saya the blade was sold with in Japan in Dec 2023 was gone and substituted with the worse fitting replacement I've come across. Dealer should be ashamed. That out of the way let's talk about the blade now I've had a chance to see it in hand. As was discussed previously its Gimei, 99.9999% sure of that. The jihada and ha is devoid of activity (although if I squint I can see tiny black particles of nie?) which supports Kirill's educated guess that it's a 'modern' steel and not tamahagane from iron sand. Having done a little research before I got the blade I was almost willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. It seemed to resemble later Muromachi Mino, in particular this Kanenobu I found in poor polish, with jizo boshi-like turn back, Midare Sanbonsugi hamon and a jihada with minimal activity. http://www.nihontocr...om/mumei_katana.html Then I noticed this odd repeating pattern in the Hamon. The pattern of peaks and troughs are so regular on the omote and ura sides of the blade. To me this suggests a modern manufacture but I'm open to discussion as to whether this is something that can be expected on a late Muromachi work. Now some images I took with my macro lens. Hopefully these can advance the knowledge. I really wanted this to be a jobbing late Muromachi Mino blade that exhibits some Yamato influences (could explain the choice of smith that was used for the Mei), but I think I will be disappointed. Quote
Lewis B Posted October 11 Author Report Posted October 11 I have highlighted the areas when there is repetition of the peaks and this occurs the entire length of the blade. Look at the flanking peaks too. Identical repetitions Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 The hard appearance of the Hamon and dark spots at the peaks indicate oil tempering. Not something one should strive to own. Quote
Brian Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 I don't think you can judge much from those pics. I don't see mass produced here. Smiths were quite capable of doing very repeated and precise patterns. Just look at a good sanbonsugi hamon. The polish isn't helping evaluation here. It is obscuring much of what you would want to see including the hada. I wouldn't be confident in calling oil or water quenched from that state of polish. But Mino traditionally made can't be ruled out. 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted October 12 Author Report Posted October 12 I agree not the typical darkening at the peaks I would normally associate with an Abura quenched blade. No obvious double Hamon shadow effects either. Thanks Brian for dispelling some concerns I had with the precision of the repeating hamon pattern. I need to do more research on Mino blades of this type as the one in my link isn't in a good enough condition to make any meaningful comparisons, except that the Boshi are very similar. Note: I didn't mean the particles of nie are black, just thats how they appear in photos due to their highly reflective properties. Just wanted to clarify this in case Jacques is following along. Well it didn't take me long to find a Mino Kanenobu (https://www.e-nihont.../products/detail/728) with a very regular repetition in the Hamon line. I guess everyday is a learning day. This makes me feel more positive about the blade and that the Nakago Yokan-iro is not artificial. The 3 Mekugi-ana also appear punched and of different sizes which supports older manufacture and suriage modification over different periods. Quote
sabiji Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 Mmmmh, what were your intentions when you bought this blade? Was it a typical Mino work of the Muromachi? If so, in what style? I find it difficult to recognize typical Mino in this blade. Of course, it is difficult to judge from photos anyway. And I can only partially recognize the Yakiba, just like the Nioiguchi. Tsurete, i.e. a uniform coupling of fairly identical Gunome, is not an invention of the Mino and became more common at the end of the Kamakura and in the Nanbokucho. You can also find it in Osafune, or in the Kozori. A Sanbonsugi is a Togari Gunome with a very identical repeat. Repeat is used more often in Gunome than many people think. It brings a certain pleasant aesthetic when the repeat is varied. That is why a pure Tsurete Hamon, or a very identical Gunome repeat like Sanbonsugi, looks strict, even boring. (Even though such a perfect and flawless Hamon is of course quite demanding). I mean that only from an aesthetic point of view, not a technical one. But what are our roots here? It is not a Sanbonsugi, and I cannot see any Togari anywhere. The Yakigashira all look very round. But it is not a Kenbo-Midare either. I recognize a coupling of Gunome groups mainly in combinations of two and three. These are connected by round Tani. The sides are relatively steep, some a little flatter, which is somewhat reminiscent of Koshi no Hiraita. A Bizen invention, which was also copied and interpreted in Mino. But if we come anywhere close to the Koshi no Hiraita here, this Hamon seems far too stiff and "intentional" for a Muromachi/Momoyama work. And I certainly cannot detect any Yamato influence. That is just my opinion. Quote
Lewis B Posted October 14 Author Report Posted October 14 Thank you for the insight. Just to be completely transparent I did not purchase this blade. It was offered to me and I accepted the kind gesture as an opportunity to learn more about the blade and some of its history, be it good or bad. The Gimei inscription is not a great start but I want to study the blade on its merits and if it turns out to be Chinese copy aimed to deceive or an older sword that was embellished with the inscription, its all good. The registration card dated back to the early 70's, so unless that was also fraudulent, then we can at least assume its more likely to be the latter. 1 Quote
Ron M Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 Hi to you, It is my humble opinion that this hamon is supposed to represent the “Muramasa Mino style” that is seen A LOT on gunto and many nihonto. Whether or not it’s nihonto or not I cannot say, but feel free to look up Muramasa hamon, and you’ll see sometimes this exact 3 choji-2 choji-2 choji-3 choji etc etc or similar pattern but in togari types or mixed. regards Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 15 Report Posted October 15 If it was registered back in 1972 you don't have to worry about it being a Chinese replica. The photos may be making the peaks of the Hamon appear darker than they are, the Hada rules out a typical Showa Seki-To but some of those swords were made using various mixed metals that produced rather vibrant Hada while still being oil tempered. 1 Quote
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