DTI 2024 catalog available

[Maurice_lmb]

Hello all

link to download the DTI 2024 catalog: https://www.toukenku...logue_20241010-2.pdf

enjoy

M.

[Lewis B]

Thanks for posting Maurice. 

[Lewis B]

If anyone is wondering about the price of the TokuJu Norishige and Yukimitsu, they are 36mil and 38mil Yen respectively. I guess that illustrates the power and influence of NBTHK's papers on the market. 

[Gakusee]

On 10/12/2024 at 7:28 AM, Lewis B said:

If anyone is wondering about the price of the TokuJu Norishige and Yukimitsu, they are 36mil and 38mil Yen respectively. I guess that illustrates the power and influence of NBTHK's papers on the market. 

Not only papers….. As though they are not top Soshu smiths…

 

Regarding prices, one can indeed go and check the individual dealers’ websites. Tsuruginoya (Miyoga) san indeed has his prices on his website as does KImura san (Eirakudo) etc. 

[Lewis B]

23 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

Not only papers….. As though they are not top Soshu smiths…

 

Regarding prices, one can indeed go and check the individual dealers’ websites. Tsuruginoya (Miyoga) san indeed has his prices on his website as does KImura san (Eirakudo) etc. 

No prices listed for those blades on Tsuruginoya (I had to email) and Eirakudo usually have 'Ask' on most of their higher end pieces by important makers. 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

There are many aspects that go into a price of a blade like that, simply stating it's chiefly because of the papers is a little shallow.

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

19 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

There are many aspects that go into a price of a blade like that, simply stating it's chiefly because of the papers is a little shallow.

Who said chiefly? Of course there are many contributing factors, NBTHK papers being one of them

 

[Gakusee]

2 hours ago, Lewis B said:

No prices listed for those blades on Tsuruginoya (I had to email) and Eirakudo usually have 'Ask' on most of their higher end pieces by important makers. 

 

 

 

I see. But he had them on the website 2 days ago but he must have taken the prices down. They were both on his website in the section 'New. Swords at the DTI'. 
 

 

The other amendment he has made is the removal of the Soshu Sadamune tanto. I suppose when the excitement was on, they posted all the blades plus most of the prices on the website but then afterwards they decided to keep some mystery for the DTI and removed some blades and some prices. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

While completely out of my level and out of reach here is bit additional info on the 2 above items.

 

They both passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 28 shinsa and were sent in by same person. Both swords were re-evaluated at Jūyō 49 with added on Kunzan kinzōgan. I believe at Jūyō 49 there were 4 previous Jūyō that all had Kunzan kinzōgan addons (since their original Jūyō pass) that were sent in by same family (however different than submitter at TJ28). The Yukimitsu originally passed Jūyō 8 as mumei Yukimitsu and the Norishige was originally passed Jūyō 24 as mumei Norishige.

 

These are top tier items for top tier collectors. However I think personally I would rather have 10 good items compared to 1 top item. It is a choice of preference and unfortunately I probably will never achieve either one.

 

Apart from those 2 items there are lots of items in the catalog that I find much more appealing to my own taste. There will be wonderful items at DTI, happy for everyone who will get a chance to visit there.

[Lewis B]

I agree, a case of diminishing returns. I would take several high quality Juyo with attributions to well known makers than a mumei TJ for those numbers. I wonder what the kinzogan Mei cost. 

[nulldevice]

2 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

While completely out of my level and out of reach here is bit additional info on the 2 above items.

 

They both passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 28 shinsa and were sent in by same person. Both swords were re-evaluated at Jūyō 49 with added on Kunzan kinzōgan. I believe at Jūyō 49 there were 4 previous Jūyō that all had Kunzan kinzōgan addons (since their original Jūyō pass) that were sent in by same family (however different than submitter at TJ28). The Yukimitsu originally passed Jūyō 8 as mumei Yukimitsu and the Norishige was originally passed Jūyō 24 as mumei Norishige.

 

These are top tier items for top tier collectors. However I think personally I would rather have 10 good items compared to 1 top item. It is a choice of preference and unfortunately I probably will never achieve either one.

 

Apart from those 2 items there are lots of items in the catalog that I find much more appealing to my own taste. There will be wonderful items at DTI, happy for everyone who will get a chance to visit there.

There are a number of items on the list that have me very interested. The question is even at the TH or Juyo level how many of them are affordable (relative to what I'm ready to spend)? I'm trying to highlight which blades I'm most attracted to so I can try and get a look at them at DTI this year and see what their prices are. Should be a fun experience regardless.

 

[Lewis B]

12 hours ago, nulldevice said:

There are a number of items on the list that have me very interested. The question is even at the TH or Juyo level how many of them are affordable (relative to what I'm ready to spend)? I'm trying to highlight which blades I'm most attracted to so I can try and get a look at them at DTI this year and see what their prices are. Should be a fun experience regardless.

 

Please report back. I'm planning to attend next years event. Enjoy the experience.

[Brian]

I'm also seriously considering next year. If anyone has any rumours (I know it's too early) about the dates for next year, I would appreciate it.

[Lewis B]

Hopefully earlier like this year.

[nulldevice]

3 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Please report back. I'm planning to attend next years event. Enjoy the experience.

I'll only be there for 4-5 hours for one of the days. I'll be on a Japan trip with my wife and some friends and I was able to secure the 2nd to go to Tokyo and spend some time at the show. 

[Lewis B]

51 minutes ago, nulldevice said:

I'll only be there for 4-5 hours for one of the days. I'll be on a Japan trip with my wife and some friends and I was able to secure the 2nd to go to Tokyo and spend some time at the show. 

Only 4-5 hours. That could be overwhelmingly short. By all accounts its a massive event. I would certainly have 5-10 swords I really wanted to see. I'm curious how the prices compare to the gallery websites and the payment options. Paying a deposit seems the way to go and the balance when back home (unless they take credit card). You would have at least a 3-6 week wait while the export docs are prepared.

[nulldevice]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

Only 4-5 hours. That could be overwhelmingly short. By all accounts its a massive event. I would certainly have 5-10 swords I really wanted to see. I'm curious how the prices compare to the gallery websites and the payment options. Paying a deposit seems the way to go and the balance when back home (unless they take credit card). You would have at least a 3-6 week wait while the export docs are prepared.

Honestly, I'm expecting that 99% of the swords there will be out of my reach. There are a few longer swords from the nanbokucho/kamakura era that are "only" TH that might be within grasp that are mumei so those are probably the ones I will focus on.  I'll take photos and post them after the event and after I get back from Japan.

 

[atm]

I’ll be there both days, so I will give a report, too.

[Brian]

Those who attended, spill the beans! We all want to live vicariously through you. How was it?
Any interesting purchases? Pics would be great. And I assume the after-events were fantastic as usual.

[CSM101]

The after-events were fantastic. Robert Hughes owes me 10 therapy sessions.

 

For photos from my side you will have to wait until end of November. 

 

 

[atm]

This was my first time at DTI, and it was a whirlwind trip from the US to Tokyo and back to the US in six days due to late planning. But I am so glad I went. Some impressions/advice for newbies:

 

1) There were something like 68 dealers. If you spend all 13 hours at DTI that it is open, you don’t have a lot of time at each dealer. And there were far more swords on display than I imagined. So I viewed dealer websites in advance, identified items I wanted to see, emailed dealers to confirm the item would be at DTI, and made a list of those items to prioritize seeing them. I had 10 swords on my list. I went to those dealers first and saw those 10 swords along with other swords at those dealers. Only then did I expand my search. I’m glad I had this plan.

 

2) Despite #1 above, I did not buy a sword from that advance list. I bought a different sword that a dealer did not have on their website yet. And I only bought it on Sunday, after I felt like I had seen everything I needed to see Saturday and Sunday to make a decision.

 

3) Relationships help a lot. I had met Mike Yamasaki at the San Francisco show. So when I saw him at DTI, I mentioned some things I liked. He took me to the dealer I eventually bought from, and Mike spent over an hour with me looking at a couple of blades he recommended. As the dealer was a longtime friend of Mike’s, Mike negotiated a great deal for me with no compensation for himself. I could not have gotten that deal on my own. It was the difference between buying that sword and not being able to afford it. Mike was super busy with other commitments and paying clients, but he was very generous with his time and knowledge.

 

4) Study swordsmith kanji. I am super glad I purchased the flashcards @Ray Singer sells and that I studied hard the kanji for smiths and provinces. Some dealers have English signage at the show, but many do not. If you can’t read kanji, you’ll be missing a lot.

 

5) I was amazed at the quantity, range of prices, and quality. Unlike US shows, there wasn’t much that wasn’t swords, fittings, or armor. Not much associated stuff, like books, videos, or prints. It is very heavy on blades. You want to spend a couple of thousand dollars—no problem. Want to spent a couple of hundred thousand dollars on a TJ Norishige, Yukimitsu, etc.—no problem. 
 

6) Kudos to @Keichodo for organizing social after events while being also busy with the show. As I was traveling alone, being able to socialize with others and discuss similar interests was great. And Robert is such a funny and nice guy. But I agree with @CSM101, some therapy may be needed after what I experienced.

 

I am sure I will think of other things as I decompress. I’ll post more as they come to me. And sorry, I was so busy that I forgot to take pictures.

[Lewis B]

25 minutes ago, atm said:

This was my first time at DTI, and it was a whirlwind trip from the US to Tokyo and back to the US in six days due to late planning. But I am so glad I went. Some impressions/advice for newbies:

 

1) There were something like 68 dealers. If you spend all 13 hours at DTI that it is open, you don’t have a lot of time at each dealer. And there were far more swords on display than I imagined. So I viewed dealer websites in advance, identified items I wanted to see, emailed dealers to confirm the item would be at DTI, and made a list of those items to prioritize seeing them. I had 10 swords on my list. I went to those dealers first and saw those 10 swords along with other swords at those dealers. Only then did I expand my search. I’m glad I had this plan.

 

2) Despite #1 above, I did not buy a sword from that advance list. I bought a different sword that a dealer did not have on their website yet. And I only bought it on Sunday, after I felt like I had seen everything I needed to see Saturday and Sunday to make a decision.

 

3) Relationships help a lot. I had met Mike Yamasaki at the San Francisco show. So when I saw him at DTI, I mentioned some things I liked. He took me to the dealer I eventually bought from, and Mike spent over an hour with me looking at a couple of blades he recommended. As the dealer was a longtime friend of Mike’s, Mike negotiated a great deal for me with no compensation for himself. I could not have gotten that deal on my own. It was the difference between buying that sword and not being able to afford it. Mike was super busy with other commitments and paying clients, but he was very generous with his time and knowledge.

 

4) Study swordsmith kanji. I am super glad I purchased the flashcards @Ray Singer sells and that I studied hard the kanji for smiths and provinces. Some dealers have English signage at the show, but many do not. If you can’t read kanji, you’ll be missing a lot.

 

5) I was amazed at the quantity, range of prices, and quality. Unlike US shows, there wasn’t much that wasn’t swords, fittings, or armor. Not much associated stuff, like books, videos, or prints. It is very heavy on blades. You want to spend a couple of thousand dollars—no problem. Want to spent a couple of hundred thousand dollars on a TJ Norishige, Yukimitsu, etc.—no problem. 
 

6) Kudos to @Keichodo for organizing social after events while being also busy with the show. As I was traveling alone, being able to socialize with others and discuss similar interests was great. And Robert is such a funny and nice guy. But I agree with @CSM101, some therapy may be needed after what I experienced.

 

I am sure I will think of other things as I decompress. I’ll post more as they come to me. And sorry, I was so busy that I forgot to take pictures.

I'm sure we would all like to know what you bought and maybe some reasons why the 10 priority blades were not in the shopping cart at the end of the day. I assume it wasn't due to the price if you had seen these on the websites.

[atm]

4 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

I'm sure we would all like to know what you bought and maybe some reasons why the 10 priority blades were not in the shopping cart at the end of the day. I assume it wasn't due to the price if you had seen these on the websites.

I bought a Juyo signed Chikafusa (Fukuoka Ichimonji) tachi. I had identified a couple of other Ichimonji swords for my list, but I knew going in that one was out of my budget and another was a mumei wakizashi that was just average when I saw it in person. The other swords on my list were contenders and in budget, and I added to the list during the show. It was funny, I woke up Sunday morning telling myself to stop thinking about that Chikafusa because I could not afford it, and then a few hours later I was able to afford it thanks to Mike’s help.

 

One other thing I just remembered—I was pleasantly surprised how willing dealers were to let me examine their swords, even multiple times. I tried to be somewhat reasonable about it by not asking to examine the crazy expensive swords. But I did look at some swords that did not have listed prices that turned out to be way out of my budget.

[Lewis B]

35 minutes ago, atm said:

I bought a Juyo signed Chikafusa (Fukuoka Ichimonji) tachi. I had identified a couple of other Ichimonji swords for my list, but I knew going in that one was out of my budget and another was a mumei wakizashi that was just average when I saw it in person. The other swords on my list were contenders and in budget, and I added to the list during the show. It was funny, I woke up Sunday morning telling myself to stop thinking about that Chikafusa because I could not afford it, and then a few hours later I was able to afford it thanks to Mike’s help.

 

One other thing I just remembered—I was pleasantly surprised how willing dealers were to let me examine their swords, even multiple times. I tried to be somewhat reasonable about it by not asking to examine the crazy expensive swords. But I did look at some swords that did not have listed prices that turned out to be way out of my budget.

Nice pickup and a good moment to make a big purchase with the strengthening of the $ against the Yen. A Fukuoka Ichimonji is on my list but I have yet to find one i like and within budget. Prices seem to be all over the place. Spending the sort of money they command requires an in person inspection.

[myochin]

On 10/15/2024 at 9:05 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

While completely out of my level and out of reach here is bit additional info on the 2 above items.

 

They both passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 28 shinsa and were sent in by same person. Both swords were re-evaluated at Jūyō 49 with added on Kunzan kinzōgan. I believe at Jūyō 49 there were 4 previous Jūyō that all had Kunzan kinzōgan addons (since their original Jūyō pass) that were sent in by same family (however different than submitter at TJ28). The Yukimitsu originally passed Jūyō 8 as mumei Yukimitsu and the Norishige was originally passed Jūyō 24 as mumei Norishige.

 

These are top tier items for top tier collectors. However I think personally I would rather have 10 good items compared to 1 top item. It is a choice of preference and unfortunately I probably will never achieve either one.

 

Apart from those 2 items there are lots of items in the catalog that I find much more appealing to my own taste. There will be wonderful items at DTI, happy for everyone who will get a chance to visit there.

 

Hello Jussi,

 

Could you please tell me where I can find the results of Tokubetsu Jûyô 28 ?

 

Many thanks

Paul

[Soshin]

No DTI for me this year. In a few years if I am lucky, I will be able to attend it again. Thank you for sharing the link to this year's show catalog.    

[nulldevice]

It was a great show. I was able to work with Mike Y and find a wonderful first addition to my collection! 
 

There were swords ranging from $1000 to well over $500k for a few JuBi examples I saw.

 

Every sword I inspected was in a perfect or very near perfect polish. This was a great time to really see excellent examples of some top smiths. 
 

Every dealer was incredibly willing to show swords well out of my budget. I didn’t go asking after the TJ or JuBi swords, but I handled many Juyo swords that were $50k+ including some amazing Rai and Norishige blades among others. 
 

Reading kanji names as Adam mentioned above was crucial. I don’t know all of the kanji names and provinces but knowing a little goes a very long way. Same goes with the paper levels and eras (Kamakura, Edo, etc.)
 

The catalog swords were all over the price spectrum. I expected some of the catalog swords I was interested to all be out of my budget but surprisingly 2 of them were right at my budget level. 
 

One small thing, many of the Japanese only dealers have prices listed in JPY using man (10,000yen multiples) just something small to know. 

It was a wonderful show and I wished I could’ve spent the full 2 days there and taken advantage of the English events before and afterwards. I heard there were some excellent English sword study groups on Monday with top smith blades that I would’ve loved to attend but the wife was already gracious enough to spend 5 hours with me on Saturday!

 

 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Thank you for giving your experiences! The amount of top quality items for sale must be mind boggling.

 

The TJ28 results can be found in here: https://www.touken.or.jp/Portals/0/pdf/news/第28回特別重要刀剣等指定品発表.pdf

[myochin]

Thank you Jussi !

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

Thank you for giving your experiences! The amount of top quality items for sale must be mind boggling.

 

The TJ28 results can be found in here: https://www.touken.or.jp/Portals/0/pdf/news/第28回特別重要刀剣等指定品発表.pdf

Over 10% (3/26) are Norishige's work. Not bad going.