Translation assistance on nihonto

[grapppa]

Thank you for your assistance in translating. This is the nakago of a sword that I am considering purchasing and would ultimately want to know if it is authentic and have some idea of fair market value. Other details of this nihonto will be posted over the next day or so in the nihonto section. For some addtional details, I have added a partial pic of the tsuba which also has kanji characters. I will put some effort in trying to identify myself, but this will take some time.... Regards, Paul

[outlier48]

Hi Paul - any pictures of the other side of the nakago? Also, any complete photos of each side of the tsuba?

 

Charlie Brashear

[grapppa]

Charlie, I have complete pix of the tsuba but they are too large to post. Can I email them to your email address ? Other side of nagako attached.

[outlier48]

Paul - Sure

Charlie Brashear

[Jean]

Try first the kanjii pages link, Paul, the sword one is an easy one, the tsuba is not too hard too.

 

Do not despair as I am sure someone in the board shall give it to you right away without reading my post :lol: :lol:

[grapppa]

The following is a dialog between Charlie (outliar48) and myself regarding reading the nakago mei. It is highly instructive for me as a beginner and I thank him for his efforts and would like to give him the just credit for his efforts.

Senior members, please if you could spare the time, read our dialog and let us know if we are on the right track - Paul

 

 

 

Charlie,

 

The only character I could vaguely identify after hours of looking and researching is

 

宗 Mune

or

守 Mori

 

and that is somewhat of a guess! ... I am using the nakago mei reference on the site;

 

Researching these swords makes my pistol collecting research look like a cake walk !

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

I know what you mean! There are two basic challenges: (1) being able to clearly identify a character that could be hidden by rust and/or could be somewhat stylized like cursive handwriting, and (2) coming up with the correct reading of these kanji most of which can be "pronounced" in more than one way, usually depending on use and what other kanji they are associated with. On you sword's nakago I see five characters. I believe you are correct about the first character which I see as 宗. I cannot read the second character. The thrid character is 住 ("Juu" resident). Usually the first two characters would be the name of a place such as a province of old Japan prior to the creation of "prefectures", so I think the second character probably will complete a province name. However, I cannot find a province that begins with 宗. The fourth character appears to me to be 國 - one of the many variations of 国 ("kuni") and the last character, which is very difficult to make out clearly - just like the second character - I think may be 吉 ("yoshi") with the left half of the top horizontal stroke missing or covered by rust. There are several Kuniyoshi listed in Hawley's.

 

So, I think the mei could be 宗 ? 住 國 吉 (I have left spaces between the character for ease of reading - they normally would not be written with intervening spaces).

 

I also expected to find two more characters in this mei: 作之 ("saku kore" = made this). However, these two characters are often implied. I have a wakizashi forged by one of the Toshihide of the Nobukuni school with only a two character mei - no province and no 作之!

 

May I suggest that you post a follow up with the characters we have discerned so far and ask if you (we) are on the right track. I think you will quickly get a response from one or more very knowledgeable members and a "solution" to the question about the sword mei. Then you can tackle the mei on the tsuba!

 

Happy New Year!

 

Charlie

[Nobody]

The first two kanji may be 桒名 (=桑名), which read Kuwana.

[outlier48]

Moriyama san, thank you - I believe you are correct.

 

It's always a pleasure for this newbie to try to puzzle these out and then get your friendly input!

 

Regards,

 

Charlie Brashear

[george trotter]

Hi,

to my tired old eyes the second character of the sword mei in the pic looks like kaku (also masa, nuka)...hisa with kuchi underneath (sorry, don't know how to do kanji inserts).

George.

[outlier48]

George, my old eyes have been working hard on this one as well. Maybe I do need laser surgery.

 

As for the second character, do you mean 冬? If so, then the first two kanji would be 桒冬? Do you have a suggestion as to the correct reading in this case (eg Kuwato)? Also, was this kanji combination used in the past as the name of a city or region of a province? I did not find it as a province name. Thanks in advance.

 

Charlie Brashear

[Nobody]

Hi,

to my tired old eyes the second character of the sword mei in the pic looks like kaku (also masa, nuka)...hisa with kuchi underneath (sorry, don't know how to do kanji inserts).

George.

I understand your point. I also thought so at the first glance. If I had not known Kuwana (桑名), I would have read the second kanji as 各 like you.

The kanji in the mei might not be correct, but I am almost sure that the inscription was intended to be Kuwana.

 

Kuwana in this example is not so strange, but 名 is a little different.

Ref. http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0810_1151syousai.htm

[george trotter]

Hi Charlie and Koichi san,

I think you are right Koichi san...Kaku is what it looks like, but it doesn't make sense. I think you are correct with Kuwana.

Charlie, I also thought it might be the kanji you showed, "Fuyu" (winter), but again, no...it looked more like the one Koichi showed with the sqare box "kuchi" (mouth) underneath. I suppose this is a good lesson on allowing even Tosho to have "spelling errors" or very strong personal ways of signing a mei.

This was a good example.

Regards,

George.

[outlier48]

George and Koichi-san,

 

Indeed, this one was a puzzler.

 

I think we have settled on 桒名 (=桑名), which is read Kuwana as Koichi-san pointed out. (I assume this refers to the city in Japan that was one of the major port towns on the Tokaido and a major port on Ise Bay during the Morumachi period).

 

Thanks to both of you for enhancing my learning, including recognizing the possibility of "spelling errors" and/or "strong personal ways of signing a mei".

 

Charlie Brashear