Francis Wick Posted October 5 Report Posted October 5 Greetings to all the big brains swords get sold and bought and resold so I am wondering if anyone has come across this tachi before or had it in hand. I bought it a week ago and don’t have it yet ( should next week ). It came from an American collection , the owner passed away. It is signed tachimei Kuniyoshi, unknown school. Needs a polish. Nagasa 27 inches. That’s about all I know so far. cheers francis 4 Quote
Gakusee Posted October 5 Report Posted October 5 Post more of boshi and closeups of jigane and hamon please. It has promise of a very good smith of a good school 2 1 Quote
Hoshi Posted October 5 Report Posted October 5 You might have struck gold. The smith is Enju Kuniyoshi, active beginning of the Nambokucho period, Jo-Jo Saku, 750 Toko Taikan 2E. Kuniyoshi is the son of Kunimura, the founder of the Enju school. Enju Kuniyoshi has various highly rated blades, including 3 Tokubetsu Juyo. Good signs: - Old patina, eroded, smoothed edges - Shape consistent with the purported maker - Hamon consistent (suguha) - Ubu, shape of the nakago is historically consistent - Kuni character within acceptable variations - Yoshi character misses a stroke, which is a good sign since he has known signatures missing this specific stroke. Conclusion: 1. Post more pictures so we can have a closer look. 2. If it keeps checking out from the new photo, send to Japan (Get in touch with Ted Tenold, he's fantastic) for NBHTK assessment and Sayagaki from Tanobe Sensei 3. Get a new polish by a top Japanese mukansa polisher (Fujishiro, Saito or Abe) If it all checks out (and this is a big if. There is always a risk of hagire or other grave issues) - then it has a good shot at Juyo+ It's nice to see a promising find on NMB. Well done. 4 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 5 Author Report Posted October 5 Ok good stuff my appreciation for the comments. When I get it next week I will closely inspect it for the dreaded and so often encountered big issues such as hagire ( caught me out a few times already ) , saiha and so on ……😔 I’ll get better pics of the elements as suggested by the members and post them. thank you so far I am always abazed at the experience and ideas this forum brings, people are so knowledgeable and generous 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted October 6 Report Posted October 6 On the one hand: yes, show it to people and you can probably submit it for papers as is. I have some doubts its a proper Enju signature. Not nearly enough to call it gimei, but enough to scratch my head. Especially since there were other Kuniyoshi smiths (including as strange as it sounds non-meikan ones) and it needs to be investigated a bit more. Sugata-wise its either early Muromachi or mid-late Kamakura. In any case it looks like a solid piece. Seeing boshi in detail + maybe some work if hamon/hada are visible would be helpful. 4 1 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted October 6 Report Posted October 6 Large sized Kuniyoshi (国吉) signature would indeed be pointing towards Enju Kuniyoshi. The signature placement is also good sign in my books. It seems to be relatively short one if the listings 68,6 cm is correct. So far I have only found 11 signed tachi by Enju Kuniyoshi and only 3 of them are ubu. 79,1 cm one of Kasuga Taisha 78,0 cm one that passed Jūyō 15 76,1 cm one of Ise Jingū Will be interesting to see more of the sword, and even if some big issues arise it would still be very important reference item if genuine. 1 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 Thank you gentlemen. I have gone from the assumption it won’t be any good because of “ something” . It is just so unlikely that an ubu zamei kamakura tachi is going to show up out of the woodwork. Most things gave been seen, sent for papers and been rejected etc. There are things that don’t make good sense as you have all pointed out correctly. Like Jussi says, tachi were generally longer and when left you should be substantially more lengthy. The provenance checks out and by the looks of it , it has not been on the open market for about 20 years, but that leaves plenty time for it to have circulated and found wanting in some aspect. Once I get it at home I will give it a bit if a wipe down and get better measurements and pictures and would very much value the already measured and welcome comments given and accepted with appreciation. i did buy another sword at the same sale however this one I am more sure is no good. It sold in 2012 for substantially more ( $26k in inflation adjusted money ). This one likely has seen better educated eyes in the past I think. it is a gakumei “ Norishige “ but in the auction pics you can see some gunome which I suspect is wrong. I bought it for 3.5 k so no matter as it is in decent polish and has nice fittings. Nagasa 25 3/4 inches here are some pics. Thanks gents your comments are so good thank you so very much for the contribution and education 🙏🏽 1 Quote
GeorgeLuucas Posted October 6 Report Posted October 6 Hi Francis, interesting swords! Sorry to be off topic. But when you get the chance I’d love to see some close-ups of that habaki with the bird Cheers! Carry on, -Sam 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 Hi Sam yes it’s pretty cool. Pigeon one side fan other side ( another reason to suspect it’s not genuine ! ) 2 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 2 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said: Large sized Kuniyoshi (国吉) signature would indeed be pointing towards Enju Kuniyoshi. The signature placement is also good sign in my books. It seems to be relatively short one if the listings 68,6 cm is correct. So far I have only found 11 signed tachi by Enju Kuniyoshi and only 3 of them are ubu. 79,1 cm one of Kasuga Taisha 78,0 cm one that passed Jūyō 15 76,1 cm one of Ise Jingū Will be interesting to see more of the sword, and even if some big issues arise it would still be very important reference item if genuine. For sure Jussi if it has issues I will disclose it instead of having someone else buy my mistakes and so on …… Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 18 minutes ago, GeorgeLuucas said: Hi Francis, interesting swords! Sorry to be off topic. But when you get the chance I’d love to see some close-ups of that habaki with the bird Cheers! Carry on, -Sam Not off topic Sam it’s interesting 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 16 hours ago, Hoshi said: You might have struck gold. The smith is Enju Kuniyoshi, active beginning of the Nambokucho period, Jo-Jo Saku, 750 Toko Taikan 2E. Kuniyoshi is the son of Kunimura, the founder of the Enju school. Enju Kuniyoshi has various highly rated blades, including 3 Tokubetsu Juyo. Good signs: - Old patina, eroded, smoothed edges - Shape consistent with the purported maker - Hamon consistent (suguha) - Ubu, shape of the nakago is historically consistent - Kuni character within acceptable variations - Yoshi character misses a stroke, which is a good sign since he has known signatures missing this specific stroke. Conclusion: 1. Post more pictures so we can have a closer look. 2. If it keeps checking out from the new photo, send to Japan (Get in touch with Ted Tenold, he's fantastic) for NBHTK assessment and Sayagaki from Tanobe Sensei 3. Get a new polish by a top Japanese mukansa polisher (Fujishiro, Saito or Abe) If it all checks out (and this is a big if. There is always a risk of hagire or other grave issues) - then it has a good shot at Juyo+ It's nice to see a promising find on NMB. Well done. Thank you so much such good insights and great advice much oblidged Quote
Lewis B Posted October 6 Report Posted October 6 Nice couple of blades. I assume neither have papers which would be odd given they are relatively recent purchases by the deceased owner vs WWII bring backs. The Gunome Hamon is not a recognised Norishige feature from my limited studies and the Mei doesn't convince either. But interesting fittings and low purchase price means its not a disaster if gimei. The Kuniyoshi will be a good one to untangle. Lots of potential there. 1 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 6 Author Report Posted October 6 10 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Nice couple of blades. I assume neither have papers which would be odd given they are relatively recent purchases by the deceased owner vs WWII bring backs. The Gunome Hamon is not a recognised Norishige feature from my limited studies and the Mei doesn't convince either. But interesting fittings and low purchase price means its not a disaster if gimei. The Kuniyoshi will be a good one to untangle. Lots of potential there. Indeed Lewis thank you I suspect “ no chance “ but I will just keep it nice sword as is . Yes no papers but the last owner had many swords and didn’t paper any of them which is either good or bad but leaves space for investigation which is always part of the fun I guess ( or lost money in most cases ) 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 20 Author Report Posted October 20 Ok finally got it today. Bad news ? Spots of rust but all superficial no pitting should polish I think Not piles of meat on it but enough I think Good news: NO fatal flaws it is actually exactly 27 inches long Nagasa No expert and pics are seriously hard to take no setup for it from my limited knowledge it has suguha hamon, boshi medium and chu maru, jihada ko itame 2 Quote
Deiro Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 Glad that it has no fatal flaws, shame the rust has to be just on the most important part. If (or rather when) it is polished, I assume you might try to submit it? Quote
Gakusee Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 8 hours ago, Francis Wick said: Ok finally got it today. Bad news ? Spots of rust but all superficial no pitting should polish I think Not piles of meat on it but enough I think Good news: NO fatal flaws it is actually exactly 27 inches long Nagasa No expert and pics are seriously hard to take no setup for it from my limited knowledge it has suguha hamon, boshi medium and chu maru, jihada ko itame Thanks for the detailed image of the mei. It does look close to a TokuJu Kuniyoshi mei (attached here for reference) plus the workmanship is consistent and so is the jigane quality. I think it has a good chance of papering just by the little we have seen here. 2 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 20 Author Report Posted October 20 3 hours ago, Gakusee said: Thanks for the detailed image of the mei. It does look close to a TokuJu Kuniyoshi mei (attached here for reference) plus the workmanship is consistent and so is the jigane quality. I think it has a good chance of papering just by the little we have seen here. Thank you for the pic of the other mei. It’s pretty close I would say. Has a chance I guess no good reason not to try at this point 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 20 Author Report Posted October 20 5 hours ago, Deiro said: Glad that it has no fatal flaws, shame the rust has to be just on the most important part. If (or rather when) it is polished, I assume you might try to submit it? Hi and thank you. Yes I might try to submit it. The rust is thankfully superficial and I wiped and oiled it yesterday to try stabilize it 1 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 Like Michael above I would feel this would be quite plausible as being a genuine work by Enju Kuniyoshi. Unfortunately the TJ13 Orikaeshi-mei example that Michael posted above is the only actual picture of signature by this smith that I have. Here are the 3 tachi signatures that I mentioned above. Kasuga Taisha Ise Jingū Jūyō 15 4 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 Does not look bad. I would have send it to be shown to Tanobe sensei and if he feels its good to have it polished and then submitted for papers. As is, I still feel there is some uncertainty. 1 1 Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 21 Author Report Posted October 21 4 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said: Like Michael above I would feel this would be quite plausible as being a genuine work by Enju Kuniyoshi. Unfortunately the TJ13 Orikaeshi-mei example that Michael posted above is the only actual picture of signature by this smith that I have. Here are the 3 tachi signatures that I mentioned above. Kasuga Taisha Ise Jingū Jūyō 15 Outstanding Jussi I don’t know where you find all this material ! Thank you muchly it is going to Japan next year so we will see how it goes. Quote
Francis Wick Posted October 21 Author Report Posted October 21 12 minutes ago, Rivkin said: Does not look bad. I would have send it to be shown to Tanobe sensei and if he feels its good to have it polished and then submitted for papers. As is, I still feel there is some uncertainty. Indeed , until an authority pronounces it correct it is subject to healthy amounts of doubt. It is going to Japan in February of next year to be seen first before a polish etc Quote
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