sc72 Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 Gendaito blade purchased as "tamahagane", non-industrial production. I would be grateful for your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted September 30 Author Report Share Posted September 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted September 30 Author Report Share Posted September 30 Sorry for fotos but this is the best I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted September 30 Author Report Share Posted September 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 Ste, please add your first name to all posts. It is a rule here. GENDAITO are traditionally made swords. They are made of TAMAHAGANE, are water-quenched and should show NIE or NIOI formations near the HAMON and a structure in the JI (= HADA). These features are often seen best in-hand by yourself. Making photos of it isn't easy. I suggest your images should be: - well focused, not foggy or blurry - made with a dark, non reflective background for good contrast - made with light from the side (may not apply for HAMON photos) - made directly from above (not at an angle) - made with correct orientation (vertically tip-upwards, especially NAKAGO photos and TSUBA) - without HABAKI but showing the MACHI and NAKAGO JIRI - made in high resolution to see details - showing details (in magnification) like BOSHI, HAMACHI, HAMON, HADA, NAKAGO JIRI etc. or the fine work on TSUBA - presented as cut-outs so very little background is shown If you cannot supply good photos (..."these photos are all I have from the dealer...."/..."I do not have a good camera but only an old mobile phone...." ), DO NOT POST BAD ONES. They will not be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 From Stefano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 hamon îs not very "active" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis B Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Ciao Stefano. Where did you purchase and besides 'non industrial production' how was it described? Any papers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 No papers, no Mei no marks on it, it described as "gendaito" 30' years non industrial (no "gunto"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 or 40' years for officers private purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 tamahagane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Stefano, these are good photos which make it clear that it is a typical oil-quenched blade. If it was really made from TAMAHAGANE, I see no reason why it should not have been quenched in water and thus have an active HAMON with HATARAKI. The blade seems to show MUJI HADA if at all. You can add your first name to your profile so you can avoid typing it in every post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 So clarified that in your opinion it is not tamahagane (No with water but finished with oil) ...it is a WWII gunto or worse a Chinese sword? ...now I see this discussion and Ray Singer post inside (with fotos) Stefano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 I would appreciate the opinions of anyone who wants to comment on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis B Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 If you can follow Jean's guide to taking photos, angles etc we can get a better idea what you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Now I can't but I will do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 I have these photos of the previously unseen points, the koshirae is useless for the purposes of evaluating the blade as it has been changed. is this a pre or WWII gunto? or worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugyosha Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Hi Stefano, I don't know that you can distinguish a blade made from tamahagane from one made of say, orishigane or nambantetsu just by the look. Blades made from nambantetsu in the 17th century look no different to blades of that period made with Japanese steel to my eye though it's possible that there is a more uniform distribution of carbon in modern steel. Jean may say different, but he's a bladesmith and I would respect his opinion on the matter. There is some hada there, so it's possible to say that the steel has been folded but it's hard to say more. As regards the hamon, the darker areas at the peak of each of the highest parts of the hamon (yahazu, arrow nock shape?) are the indicator that it has not been quenched in water but in oil. My understaning is that quenching in oil requires far less skill than using water as there as a water quench creates greater stress in the blade with a tendency for cracks to form in the edge so, having gone to the effort of folding the steel, there would be no point in taking the risk of ruining all that work by quenching with water. With regard to the photographs that you have just posted of the tang, I woud suggest that the patina looks odd and looks like it has been applied to give the blade an aged look. Also the ha and mune machi are off, they are always at 90 degrees to the blade on traditionally made Japanese swords and not with that chamfered kind of look. I'm sorry Stefano but I think that this is a modern Chinese copy (albeit much better than most) and I hope that you didn't pay too much for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugyosha Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Sorry, one further thing: is the blade unsigned? I would expect a Japanese made gendaito to carry the smith's signature (in fact I think it may be a legal requirement) so if that is not the case then that's another pointer towards it not being a Japanse made blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajo Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Its a nice showa-to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Agree, it is an oil tempered Seki sword from WWII with the Mei removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 ok and EDO koshirae (not seen in fotos here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Are we at least sure that we are excluding Chinese production? Thank to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 I see that you too are doubtful between (nice) gunto and chinese copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc72 Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 Sorry for big writing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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