How old do you think these two tsubas are?

[Yumso]

 

 

 

 

 

Found these two tsubas at some site. I think they are both tachi tsubas that seem to be quite old but am not sure. 

Especially 2nd one's small hearts looks too perfect for me... is it punched?

 

What do you think? Edo-peroid made? Chinese replica?

[Tcat]

The top is the tachi tsuba, the lower is a tachi seppa. They look authentic Japanese to me...age looks late edo/meiji.

[Yumso]

Alex you're right. It is indeed a seppa.
Why was I thinking that as somekind of real thin & weird looking tsuba? 

[Jake6500]

12 hours ago, Tcat said:

The top is the tachi tsuba, the lower is a tachi seppa. They look authentic Japanese to me...age looks late edo/meiji.

 

Honestly I would guess even a later period than that. The heart shape we see in the top Tsuba is a design choice that originates in the mid to later Edo Period?

Here are some Edo Period example of it:

 

 

The problem is the cross shape in the centre which to me is an indication these are both post-Edo productions emulating the Edo Period design.

The insertion of another metal to form the cross in the second one is an indication to me that this second one might be even more recent than the first.

 

If I had to guess, both of these are likely post-Edo works. The Aoi-gata (heart) shape has an association with cavalry. Perhaps these Tsuba date to the pre-war conflicts of the First Sino-Japanese War in 1895, the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5 or even the Second World War as the imperial Japanese army utilised cavalry units in all of these conflicts.

 

EDIT: Some WW2 era items featuring the Aoi-gata (heart) shape design:

 

 

[Spartancrest]

 If we are to believe all the advertising - this guard dates from  Late Kamakura Period (1278-1288 A.D.) 

https://www.samuraim...nteisho-certificate/

 

 

  this one from 1572    https://www.samuraim...k-hozon-certificate/

 

  or something really fresh made last week  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145100278538

I guess without some form of metal dating - age is often a guess.

 

 

[Iekatsu]

Aoi-gata Tachi-kangushi Tsuba with inome (boars eyes) go back to late Heian/Kamakura, and continued to be made in various forms all through the Edo period and beyond, but none of the examples in this thread have any real age.

[Geraint]

And just to add, the first two examples that Dale has provided are illustrative but in both cases it is the sword blades that are papered, not the koshirae so we would reasonably assume that they are later than the blades.

(Unusually the first has both kodzuka and kogai and the second has very late mounts, have a look at the sarute.)

 

In the original post the o seppa are cast integrally with the tsuba and this is very late and poor quality, the second o seppa has at least signs of having been part of a koshirae.

 

All the best.

[Jake6500]

Interesting to learn that Aoi-gata has a more extensive history than I had realised!

[Iekatsu]

The first one posted and the second and third ones Dale posted are modern.

[Tcat]

On 9/26/2024 at 6:58 PM, Jake6500 said:

Honestly I would guess even a later period than that. The heart shape we see in the top Tsuba is a design choice that originates in the mid to later Edo Period?

Boars eye form as a decoration on fittings goes back into early koto as others have mentioned, but perhaps I was too “generous” with the age estimate because they are certainly very late and the quality is not exciting..I change my estimate to Meiji or modern.