proper word usage

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, I ran across this in a book recently acquired from Kodansha and I wonder about it. The west has used words incorrectly eg. Harakiri instead of Seppuku, by not being informed. I have just run into the use of Suemonogiri for test cuts that demonstrate the abilities of the swordsman on non-secured targets, whereas Tameshigiri is the demonstration of a swords sharpness. Has anyone used this word in that context? I previously had used Tameshigiri as all encompassing. John

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Hi John,

 

I'm not familiar with the term Suemonogiri but, as regards hara-kiri being used incorrectly in the west instead of seppuku, I'd like to quote Christopher Ross again:

 

"The term seppuku is written in Japanese using two kanji: setsu, to cut or slice through, and fuku, stomach or belly, the compound word pronounced when elided as seppuku. (Yukio) Mishima, who was fastidious with language, preferred the term hara-kiri over seppuku despite its perceived vulgarity."

(Mishima's Sword, page 167)

 

"Seppuku is written using the same two kanji used for hara-kiri, the order reversed, and pronounced with the Chinese reading or On-yomi. It is commonly pointed out that hara-kiri is a vulgarism, but this is a misunderstanding. Hara-kiri is a Japanese reading or Kun-yomi of the characters, and as it became customary to prefer Chinese readings in official announcements only the term seppuku was ever used in writing. So hara-kiri is a spoken term and seppuku a written term for the same act."

(Mishima's Sword, page 168

 

Therefore, even if most westerners use hara-kiri they are not necessarily incorrect and are actually using the Japanese, rather than the Chinese, form of the word.

 

Regards,

Simon

[Guido]

John, I recommend reading this very interesting article http://www2.una.edu/Takeuchi/DrT_Jpn_Cu ... ameshi.htm by Alex Takeuchi (with an illustrated appendix by yours truly ) about Tameshi etc. I'm currently trying to expand this by listing and comparing the Wazamono rankings in the Kaihô Kenjaku and Kokon Kaji Bikô, in other words: to be continued ...

[John A Stuart]

Beautiful, Thanks Simon and Guido. Great information. John

[kusunokimasahige]

in a way its the same as the common translation in Japanese samurai movies of the word Kiru, which literally means cutting, by the Western "to kill" "kill" etcetera...

 

isnt it?

 

KM

[Guido]

isnt it?

There are two ways to write *kiru*: 切る = the "regular" cutting, and 斬る = cutting with a sword.

[kusunokimasahige]

i see, but what about the connotation of death? shinu ?

 

sine i always hear them say kiru...... translated by kill.......

 

I will cut you (down) ...... I will kill you.....

 

which in my view still isnt the same...

 

 

KM

[Guido]

Well, what can I say? If you ever go to the South Bronx and refuse to hand over your money to Jamal and his homies when being asked for, and hear the line " I'm gonna cut you ... cut you baaad!" make sure to explain to them that you fail to see the connection between being cut and being killed. I'm sure they'll explain the fine points to you immediately.

 

P.S.: The location, events and characters depicted in this post are fictious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or to actual events is purely coincidental. No racial stereotypes were intended. The Humane Society was present whenever an animal got involved into posting.

[kusunokimasahige]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Brilliant!!!!!

 

As we say on the Roman Army forum....

 

Laudes!!!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

KM

 

"The location, events and characters depicted in this post are fictious"

 

made me think about the sad story of Dith Pran, the guy who survived the killing fields of cambodia, only to be killed in a street robbery in the USA...

 

Yuckies.....