Mikasa dirk help please

[drb 1643]

I posted pictures in the translation section and was hoping someone could help me if this is a legitimate Mikasa dirk. The Mei is unlike anything I’ve seen before.

Thanks for any information.

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

We saw a similar one before.  Had that same stamp and mei on the nakago.  Does yours have standard navy dirk fittings?

 

 

@BANGBANGSAN

[drb 1643]

Yes Bruce, it has the standard navy dirk koshirae. Any views as to legitimacy?

Thanks, 

Tom

[BANGBANGSAN]

10 hours ago, drb 1643 said:

Yes Bruce, it has the standard navy dirk koshirae. Any views as to legitimacy?

Thanks, 

Tom

 

Tom

I think In addition to having the phrase 皇國興廃在此一戦 (The fate of an Empire is decided by this battle")engraved on the blade, the 甲種 (Type Ko) Mikasa Dirk typically has the swordsmith's name inscribed on the tang. The 乙種（Type Otsu), like yours, usually only has 三笠砲鋼(Mikasa cannon steel)without the swordsmith's signature.

However, the Type Ko is generally more commonly seen, while the Type Otsu is less common.

http://ohmura-study.net/741.html

[PNSSHOGUN]

That is very interesting information, so the Otsu dirk in question was made by the Zuishoha directly and the better versions contracted to Horii Hideaki?

[drb 1643]

Trystan, thank you very much for this information. I had no idea that there were two classes. So is the otsu class a machine made blade?

Tom

[BANGBANGSAN]

@PNSSHOGUN @drb 1643

 

  日露戦争で、戦艦「三笠」は帝國連合艦隊の旗艦であった。ロシアのバルチック艦隊を殲滅した「日本海々戦」の前年(明治37年)、「三笠」は「黄海々戦」で後部二連装主砲の一門を破壊された。
この破壊された主砲残鉄を使って刀剣を造る計画が水交社(海軍士官の親睦団体)などで持ち上がっていた。
昭和3年2月17日、「日本海々戦に有名な軍艦「三笠」の殊勲を記念したいと海軍で研究中の處、十二吋(30㎝)副砲※を室蘭にいる刀剣界の権威、瑞泉氏に見せた處「立派な日本刀が出来る」というので短剣・長剣三千口を作ることとなりその見本が水交神社に奉納する一組と安保海軍大将に一振り送付された」と函館新聞は報じた (新聞要約、※ 主砲の誤記。加賀美憲晴様のご指摘で判明)
  昭和3年1月～7年5月の間、この砲身残鉄を使用して（株）日本製鋼所室蘭工業所 (現室蘭製作所) 瑞泉鍛刀所の名門刀匠堀井秀明一門
が作刀。
  三笠長剣(229本)・甲種三笠短剣 973本 (皇国興廃在此一戦の彫刻)・乙種三笠短剣 451本が造られ、「水交社」を通じて販売された。
他に、特攻隊生みの親、大西滝治郎中将の愛刀「以軍艦三笠砲鋼 秀明作」の日本刀等がある。
銘は12種以上有り、銘から推測して、砲鋼のみ使用の火造り刀から、玉鋼併用の鍛錬刀まで作刀方法は数種類あった。

銘(12 Mei as follow)

  三笠・以三笠砲鋼・以三笠砲鋼作之・以軍艦三笠砲鋼・以三笠艦砲身作之・加三笠砲鋼・加三笠砲鋼精鍛・加和鋼以三笠砲材
加軍艦三笠砲鋼精鍛之・秀明・源秀明・室蘭住秀明作

 

  三笠短剣の人気が高く、短剣の製作が一段落した後、水交社は更に追加製作を日本製鋼所に依頼した。
昭和6年7月、日本製鋼所と水交社の間で『短刀の茎に「三笠」と「社章」（創立当時の旧社章）を刻む』ことで合意した。
然し、秀明が「数打ちは甚だ迷惑至極御免被りたし」と 8月に本社に宛てた手紙が存在する。
その為に、秀明の銘は入れず「製鋼所製」と刻んで弟子に打たせる事になったようだ。
この「三笠」の文字と「社章」が刻まれた短刀や「製鋼所製」の銘のある短刀の押し型はない。

Rough translate

During the Russo-Japanese War, the battleship Mikasa served as the flagship of the Imperial Combined Fleet. In the previous year (1904, Meiji 37) before the decisive "Battle of Tsushima" in which Russia's Baltic Fleet was annihilated, Mikasa had one of its twin rear main guns destroyed in the "Battle of the Yellow Sea."

A plan to use the remaining iron from this destroyed main gun to forge swords was proposed by Suikosha (a naval officers' friendship society) and others.

  On February 17, 1928 (Showa 3), the Hakodate Newspaper reported, "As the Navy was studying ways to commemorate the distinguished service of the famous battleship Mikasa in the Battle of Tsushima, they showed a 12-inch (30 cm) secondary gun (Note: incorrect, actually a main gun) to the renowned swordsmith Zuisen in Muroran. He stated, 'A fine Japanese sword can be made from this,' and as a result, 3,000 short and long swords were commissioned. A sample set was dedicated to the Suikosha Shrine, and one sword was presented to Admiral Anbo." (Summary of newspaper report; mistake regarding main gun was clarified by Mr. Noriharu Kagami).

  Between January 1928 (Showa 3) and May 1932 (Showa 7), swords were forged using the remnants of this gun barrel at the Muroran Works of the Japan Steel Works (currently Muroran Manufacturing Works) by the master swordsmith Hori Hideaki and his apprentices from the prestigious Zuisen Swordsmith Studio.

  A total of 229 long swords (Mikasa long swords), 973 Type A Mikasa dirks (engraved with "The fate of an Empire is decided by this battle"), and 451 Type B Mikasa dirks were made and sold through the Suikosha.

In addition, Admiral Onishi Takijiro, known as the father of the Kamikaze forces, owned a famous sword engraved "Made from Mikasa cannon steel by Hideaki."

  There are more than 12 known inscriptions, and based on the variations in these inscriptions, it is assumed that several different swordmaking methods were employed, ranging from fire-forged swords made only with cannon steel to forge-welded swords made with a combination of cannon steel and tamahagane .

 

 

  The popularity of the Mikasa dirks was high, and after the initial production was completed, Suikosha requested Japan Steel Works to produce additional dirks. In July of 1931 (Showa 6), an agreement was made between Japan Steel Works and Suikosha to engrave "Mikasa" and the "company emblem" (the old emblem from the founding period) on the tang of the dirks.

 However, there exists a letter from Hideaki addressed to the head office in August, expressing his strong objection to mass production, stating, "I absolutely refuse to engage in such quantity production."

As a result, Hideaki's signature was not included, and the blades were inscribed with "Manufactured by Steel Works" and forged by his apprentices. There are no known molds or examples of dirks engraved with the word "Mikasa" and the "company emblem," nor with the inscription "Manufactured by Steel Works."(I think Tom's dirk is one of these)

http://ohmura-study.net/204.html

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, drb 1643 said:

Trystan, thank you very much for this information. I had no idea that there were two classes. So is the otsu class a machine made blade?

Tom

 

In July of 1931 (Showa 6), an agreement was made between Japan Steel Works and Suikosha to engrave "Mikasa" and the "company emblem" (the old emblem from the founding period) on the tang of the dirks.

 However, there exists a letter from Hideaki addressed to the head office in August, expressing his strong objection to mass production, stating, "I absolutely refuse to engage in such quantity production."

As a result, Hideaki's signature was not included, and the blades were inscribed with "Manufactured by Steel Works" and forged by his apprentices. There are no known molds or examples of dirks engraved with the word "Mikasa" and the "company emblem," nor with the inscription "Manufactured by Steel Works."

I think your dirk is one of those with the company emblem.

 

 

 

[drb 1643]

Fantastic information Trystan. Thank you very much!

Tom

[BANGBANGSAN]

11 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

That is very interesting information, so the Otsu dirk in question was made by the Zuishoha directly and the better versions contracted to Horii Hideaki?

  There are more than 12 known inscriptions, and based on the variations in these inscriptions, it is assumed that several different swordmaking methods were employed, ranging from fire-forged swords made only with cannon steel to forge-welded swords made with a combination of cannon steel and tamahagane .

 

  In July of 1931 (Showa 6), an agreement was made between Japan Steel Works and Suikosha to engrave "Mikasa" and the "company emblem" (the old emblem from the founding period) on the tang of the dirks.

 

 However, there exists a letter from Hideaki addressed to the head office in August, expressing his strong objection to mass production, stating, "I absolutely refuse to engage in such quantity production."

As a result, Hideaki's signature was not included, and the blades were inscribed with "Manufactured by Steel Works" and forged by his apprentices. 

[BANGBANGSAN]

54 minutes ago, drb 1643 said:

Fantastic information Trystan. Thank you very much!

Tom

You got it. It's on Ohmura's website, but the Japanese version has much more information than the English version.

English version       http://ohmura-study.net/204.html

Japanese version   http://ohmura-study.net/741.html

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow Trystan, you earned your pay today!!!  Thank you my friend!

 

I'll add that Japan Steel Works, Ltd. logo to the stamps doc.

[Kiipu]

Trystan, thanks for solving the mystery of the Mikasa 三笠 logo.  The JSW logo looks like the English letters A-T-V, but not sure of the order.  Armstrong and Vickers were investors in JSW.

A = Armstrong.

T = ?.

V = Vickers.

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Trystan, thanks for solving the mystery of the Mikasa 三笠 logo.  The JSW logo looks like the English letters A-T-V, but not sure of the order.  Armstrong and Vickers were investors in JSW.

A = Armstrong.

T = ?.

V = Vickers.

Tokyo?JSW's headquarters is in Tokyo.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Tokyo?JSW's headquarters is in Tokyo.

I'd say that's a good guess - "Armstrong, Vickers, Tokyo

"1907
Founded by Hokkaido Colliery Steamship Company and the British firms Sir W.G. Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., Ltd. and Vickers Sons and Maxim, Ltd. The headquarters and factory are located in Muroran, Hokkaido.

1915
The headquarters is moved to Tokyo."

[Kiipu]

Another otsu dirk 乙種短剣 but with a chiseled name instead?

Mikasa tanto translation

[ROKUJURO]

A side note

From a metallurgical standpoint, the MIKASA steel was probably not well suited for blade making as cannon barrels have to be made of especially tough steel with low carbon content to prevent cracking.

I doubt that the MIKASA cannon steel was used as single material, but was certainly combined with a hardenable carbon steel. The use of the name MIKASA was mostly a good marketing trick in my opinion.

[Brian]

I think it's general accepted and mentioned somewhere that only a bit of the steel was used, mixed with regular blade steel. So yes...more of a patriotic thing.

[Bruce Pennington]

It's often mentioned that full sized swords were made this way, too, but until now I'd never seen one.  Thanks to @Kiipu sharing some pages from "Modern Japanese Swords : The Beginning of the Gendaito Era"; Kapp, Leon; Kapp, Hiroko; Monson, Leo, here is an example:

[Bruce Pennington]

And now they seem to be popping up!  This one posted by @Newsword1 HERE.