ddily Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Hello! So I inherited this sword from my wife's great uncle. He was a marine during WW2 and captured this sword while clearing out a bunker during the battle of the Philippines. He has a journal entry talking about it and a photo of him holding it and smiling. I would love some help on what to do with this. I have a friend who suggested I post it here. He gave me a Japanese sword cleaning kit he got while he was in Japan and taught me how to clean it. He is stumped by it. He thinks it is very very very old. Would love to know more about it and how much it is worth as I might be willing to part with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Hi Josh, welcome to the forum. Very nice sword, it does appear to be an older blade but we would need photos of the tang to be sure. Would love to see the photo of the Marine holding it. As for care, just keep the blade lightly oiled and nothing more. With such great history, maybe consider keeping it in the family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark S. Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 And be careful about offers made by PM. Know what you have first. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis B Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 2 hours ago, Mark S. said: And be careful about offers made by PM. Know what you have first. Exactly. Looks like a nice blade that is a good candidate for polish and restoration. But first I would take it to a sword show that has a Shinsa section. San Fran isn't too far from you. 2024 is over but there will be another next year. Looks older than WW2 production, and has 2 mekugi (holes in the tang) which is a good sign for an older blade. Can you measure the Nagasa? (measured from tip directly across to the mune machi (notch that the habaki sits against). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 The older blade has been fitted for the war in Type 98 Japanese officer fittings. You can read about them here: http://ohmura-study.net/934.html Like John said, a close-up of the nakago (tang) will help the guys with date estimates, and if there is a smith name. The nagasa measurement HB is asking for is here: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensho Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Kamon Menuki also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Josh, to help you with the identification of your sword, your photos should be: - well focused, not foggy or blurry - made with a dark, non reflective background for good contrast - made with light from the side (may not apply for HAMON photos) - made from directly above (not at an angle) - made with correct orientation (vertically tip-upwards, especially NAKAGO photos) - without HABAKI but showing the MACHI and NAKAGO JIRI - made in high resolution to see details - showing details of the blade (magnification) like BOSHI, HAMACHI, HAMON, HADA, NAKAGO JIRI etc. - presented as cut-outs so very little background is shown If you cannot supply good photos (..."these photos are all I have from the dealer...."/..."I do not have a good camera but only an old mobile phone...." ), DO NOT POST THEM. They will not be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 9 Author Report Share Posted September 9 Hi all! Thank you for the feed back. I am currently at work and will report back with the following request: Measurements in metric Better photos of the blade and the tang Charcoal print of the tang I will say I see extremely faint marking and been advised to use candle soot and tape. If that is not the best way to do it, please advise. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Doffin Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Hi Josh, Do not use soot and tape and do not listen to anyone who recommends it; it causes damage to the patina. A clear photo of each side of the tang, taken with a raking light (from the side to better show markings) and on a dark background will do fine. Here you will find a care and handling brochure; you should read it twice but use micro fibre cloth rather than uchiko to remove old oil: https://nbthk-ab2.or...ord-characteristics/ Grey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 First set of pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 67.5cm nasaga 3cm kissaki 18.5cm nakago Total length 85.5cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Could be late Muromachi Bizen (1500s), looks to be in good condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 9 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said: Could be late Muromachi Bizen (1500s), looks to be in good condition. How did you figure that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 19 hours ago, Lewis B said: Exactly. Looks like a nice blade that is a good candidate for polish and restoration. But first I would take it to a sword show that has a Shinsa section. San Fran isn't too far from you. 2024 is over but there will be another next year. Looks older than WW2 production, and has 2 mekugi (holes in the tang) which is a good sign for an older blade. Can you measure the Nagasa? (measured from tip directly across to the mune machi (notch that the habaki sits against). 67.5cm nasaga 3cm kissaki 18.5cm nakago Total length 85.5cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 3 hours ago, ddily said: How did you figure that out? Years of steady, my friend! And specializing in that kind of thing. The fittings are a quality upgrade. The pierced tsuba and 8 seppa are always on quality swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 6 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: Years of steady, my friend! And specializing in that kind of thing. The fittings are a quality upgrade. The pierced tsuba and 8 seppa are always on quality swords. That makes complete sense, you see enough and learn over time, you gain a trained eye. Consider me very ignorant, what does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 The tsuba and seppa are also numbered here is a picture of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Looks, Shinshinto to me. But it needs to be submitted to a shinsa. I'm basing this on the colour of the rust and the two holes. I've seen quite a few Shinshinto and Gendaito, with holes like this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco D Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 I'm skeptical that this an "old" sword and second the thought that this may be a Shinshinto sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 19 minutes ago, David Flynn said: Looks, Shinshinto to me. But it needs to be submitted to a shinsa. I'm basing this on the colour of the rust and the two holes. I've seen quite a few Shinshinto and Gendaito, with holes like this. Just curious, could the rust be misleading. What I mean by that is when it was fitted for the gunto fittings, couldn't someone knocked off some rust off the tang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 Slight update, I sent an email to Ted Tenold, this is what he said: I’ve looked over the images of your sword. It’s really difficult to clearly define many details from images, though you have done an admirable job in photographing the sword. It looks like it could be a candidate for restoration. Looks maybe early 17th century or perhaps very late 16th century. Could be a candidate for restoration but would ultimately require an in-hand evaluation to confirm it’s condition and workmanship. The koshirae is little better than average quality Type 98 Imperial Japanese Army Shingunto, in which the older blade has been fitted. There were a number of professional shops that supplied officers with the service of remounting older swords into new mountings, or supplying them with newly made traditional or non-traditionally made swords as military sidearms. He also said he is currently not accepting new projects and referred me to reach out to a local where I am located. I am going to have the blade inspected in person Friday. Happy to provide more updates 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 As I said earlier, it needs to go to shinsa. The photo's really don't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Doffin Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Hi Josh, It is good that someone who knows more than you is going to see your sword in hand but I suggest you go that far and no further for now. You don't know anywhere near enough to make informed decisions about possible restoration and shinsa. Polish and shinsa may be appropriate for the sword but there is no reason to hurry; polish does nothing to preserve the sword - a light coating of oil does that. See: I'm new to Japanese swords and I want to get my 1st sword polished and/or have koshirae made for it. in FAQ under Nihonto Info above. The more you know before you spend money on the sword the happier you'll be with the results. Grey 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 17 minutes ago, Grey Doffin said: Hi Josh, It is good that someone who knows more than you is going to see your sword in hand but I suggest you go that far and no further for now. You don't know anywhere near enough to make informed decisions about possible restoration and shinsa. Polish and shinsa may be appropriate for the sword but there is no reason to hurry; polish does nothing to preserve the sword - a light coating of oil does that. See: I'm new to Japanese swords and I want to get my 1st sword polished and/or have koshirae made for it. in FAQ under Nihonto Info above. The more you know before you spend money on the sword the happier you'll be with the results. Grey I'm not having it polished. I'm having it looked over in person by a person recommended by Ted, to figure out what I have, and provide recommendations on next steps. If anything I would want it rewrapped, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Hi Josh, any chance of finding the photo of the marine holding the sword? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinalexander Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Josh, Grey (above) is so right....just take in, what he is meaning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 10 Author Report Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, robinalexander said: Josh, Grey (above) is so right....just take in, what he is meaning Oh wow I sounded like a jack ###. Sorry about that. Ted and I had a good phone call this morning. Long story short is he would need to see it in person to give a better idea what this sword is. He said it's an older blade and could be an excellent candidate for a polish. He also said that he is too busy and can't accept anything at this moment and connected me to Scott Colton up in Washington. He said him and his partner would be able to provide more insight about it. The steps I will probably be taking is: Get it in the hand of the expert to figure out what I have. Possibly get the handle rewrapped, as the wrapping is extremely delicate and has increasingly gotten worse just by handling it to take pictures. Post findings and probably sell the blade. It's not that I don't have interest in this blade, I'd rather find someone who could give this blade proper respect and care. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted September 11 Report Share Posted September 11 Better photo's would also be a help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddily Posted September 13 Author Report Share Posted September 13 On 9/10/2024 at 5:46 AM, Grey Doffin said: Hi Josh, It is good that someone who knows more than you is going to see your sword in hand but I suggest you go that far and no further for now. You don't know anywhere near enough to make informed decisions about possible restoration and shinsa. Polish and shinsa may be appropriate for the sword but there is no reason to hurry; polish does nothing to preserve the sword - a light coating of oil does that. See: I'm new to Japanese swords and I want to get my 1st sword polished and/or have koshirae made for it. in FAQ under Nihonto Info above. The more you know before you spend money on the sword the happier you'll be with the results. Grey On 9/10/2024 at 5:31 PM, David Flynn said: Better photo's would also be a help. Update. The blade was made by Hizen family member. They dated to early Shinto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted September 13 Report Share Posted September 13 Who dated it to early Shinto, Hizen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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