Nanako shapes

[Jesta]

Recently there was a comment that the shape of the nanako on one of my tsuba was square. I am wondering what shapes there could be for nanako. As best as I can tell, the bumps are always round (hence the name), but the punch could have a square or round exterior, changing the shape of the surround to the nanako. 

I have put close-ups of two of my tsuba below. Are either/both of them round or square? How would one determine that this the case (they both look round to me)?

(edit: I blew up the first one more - see new pic) and it does look more square when you get very close… 

 

Can anyone give examples of the different nanako shapes?

 

Edited September 8 by Jesta
Added a close-up

[raaay]

Hi Justyn , IMHO , i think it is just some rubbing on the Nanako over a period of time ,  which in some places makes them look a little flat / square . but i could be wrong of course .

[Matsunoki]

The only shape nanako I’ve ever seen are round…..owned many examples, looked at hundreds in sales, ….tsuba, fuchi kashira, kogai, kozuka etc etc

As Ray says, wear on the patina and even more so actual wear to the surface metal can create different illusions.

Can anyone show us anything other than round? (Talking true punched nanako, not indented punching)

 

[FlorianB]

7 hours ago, Jesta said:

the shape of the nanako on one of my tsuba was square

I know only round nanako grains.

Maybe the remark refers to the arrangement itself? On Tsuba these are usually round, on Fuchi or Kozuka they are linear.

 

Example I showed recently in another thread.

 

Best,

Florian

[DoTanuki yokai]

I’m the one who started this but after looking at the pictures it seems to be the result of the of the walls of the punch surrounding the actual dome. 
So I think they are punched round but the surrounding punches pressed on there sides. 
 

I encircled some of the more prominent ones I see. 

 

Here I made an enlarged picture of Nanako I made to see where the chisel can be improved. 

 

 

my flaw was striking to hard creating this honeycomb like walls while striking lighter was enough to create the domes without the walls. 
The picture was take  with 60x or 120x magnification I’m not sure anymore.

I’m just trying to learn and it could be because of the lighting of the pictures that yours appear so squarish but then there are this punch marks at the sepapdai. 

[Franco D]

52 minutes ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

So I think they are punched round but the surrounding punches pressed on there sides. 
 

 

When evaluating nanako it needs to be determined whether the nanako was made using a single punch tool or whether they were made using a multiple punch tool. That can be determined by looking at the displaced metal surrounding the nanako. There are a number of factors involved in the making of nanako including the precision of the tool and the precision of the strike.

 

[DoTanuki yokai]

I thought this was an plausible explanation by Ford at ~13 minutes 

 

that makes a multiple punch tool unlikely and I ruled them out. 
I also wonder how useful it would really be. 

[Andi B.]

Here some further examples:

 

 

 

 

[Franco D]

9 hours ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

that makes a multiple punch tool unlikely and I ruled them out. 

 

I've seen 3 and 5 punch with my own eyes. Watching Ford in the video you can see the displaced metal forming a ripple all the way around the nanako. When a multiple punch is used the ripple forms an uninterrupted continuous wave down the line of nanako. That may be a clumsy description on my part for now. I'll try to see if I can come with a better way to describe it.

[Spartancrest]

 

2 hours ago, Franco D said:

I've seen 3 and 5 punch with my own eyes.

From Markus Sesko's book "Encyclopedia of Japanese Swords" pages 315 - 316

 

nanako (魚子) – Nanako means literally “roe.” In earlier times, many different characters were used for nanako, like (魶子), (七子), (粟子), or (鉾子) but these passed out of use. Nanako was frequently applied by specialized craftsmen, the so-called nanako-uchi (魚子打ち) or nanako-maki (魚子蒔き). According to the Japanese nomenclature, nanako is “beaten” (utsu, 打つ) or “sown” (maku, 蒔 く ). For this, specially made nanako chisels (nanako-tagane, 魚子鏨) were used. According to the arrangement of the “grain,” we know different terms for nanako surfaces, like Tatsuta-nanako (竜田魚子, horizontal nanako which resembles the Tatsuta-gawa [竜田川] in Nara), gunome-nanako (互の目魚子, wavy nanako), daimyō-shima-nanako (大名縞魚子, nanako where between each row of grain a polished row is applied), or shaka-nanako (釈迦魚子, very coarse nanako). Nanako was mostly applied to fittings made of shakudō and sometimes also to shibuichi and suaka surfaces, and we know examples by Tanaka Kiyotoshi (田中清寿) who applied nanako also to iron.

 

  As you can see there are single or multiple punches that were used.

[Matsunoki]

It would be very interesting to see which variety of the above punches were used by the Goto masters in the creation of their very fine nanako. Anyone have any knowledge on that? 
The one above with 20 recesses on it would be no good when trying to follow the curvature of a tsuba but would work well on a Kozuka.

A single punch would work perfectly on a tsuba, (and maybe the triple? Not sure.)

[ROKUJURO]

To add to Markus' text: There is also a very coarse NANAKO type called ARA NANAKO. If it is well made, it looks spectacular.

[Jesta]

6 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

It would be very interesting to see which variety of the above punches were used by the Goto masters in the creation of their very fine nanako. Anyone have any knowledge on that? 
The one above with 20 recesses on it would be no good when trying to follow the curvature of a tsuba but would work well on a Kozuka.

A single punch would work perfectly on a tsuba, (and maybe the triple? Not sure.)

I think that one of the ways to tell would be to see if the nanako line up or if they are alternating (if you see what I mean):
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO

or 
OOOOO

 OOOOO

OOOOO

 

The large punch would have them all in lines, whereas a single punch (in Ford’s video) would have them alternating. 

You can see that in Andi’s example they are alternating on the kogai, so maybe it would be related to the quality of the work. I can imagine that Goto would insist on the very highest quality craftsmanship… 

[Franco D]

From old computer files, not referenced.

[1kinko]

So, straight line nanako (like the video of Ford making nanako at the V&A) are enough of a problem even with etched guide lines- how do you think curved nanako would be done without guidelines?  I’m sure there were nanako-shi who could do it but, imho, the smarter or less skilled would have engraved guidelines first, perhaps by scribing from the edge to the center at the proper interval.  Some deeper guidelines seem to me to help create squarish nanako, but not leaving the precise distance between individual nanako can also result in squarish or pentangular nanako when seen up close. With regard to multiple nanako punches, we often see their use on furniture and armor. There is a good article on the building of Buddhist butsodon that shows a wide variety of punches used by these metal workers (sorry but this is the only information I have on my hard copies- WEB.kanagu.PDF [2006]; Section 7: The work of the decorative metal fittings artisan (kazari kanagu shi).

[Matsunoki]

I guess it’s the old “practice makes perfect”…..although skill levels, eyesight and patience come into the mix.

 

Another question……if the artist made a bad “strike” ie missed his mark was/is there a way of recovering the situation? It must have happened - resulting in an “OSM”

[Steves87]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:55 AM, Matsunoki said:

I guess it’s the old “practice makes perfect”…..although skill levels, eyesight and patience come into the mix.

 

Another question……if the artist made a bad “strike” ie missed his mark was/is there a way of recovering the situation? It must have happened - resulting in an “OSM”

That is a good question and I have always just thought "it is wrecked", but, thinking about it, you could locally flatten the area and start again... it will make a depression of sorts, but it has got to be cheaper than starting again. In no way would I say this is something you can do on a high end item, but something like Nagoya Mono would probably handle it... see the circled area of an image I got from the below link, flattening out nanako to remedy a miss-placed strike would create a waving nanako base as seen.

 

[1kinko]

Ishiguro School, Ashmolean Museum. Note diamond shaped nanako.

[Matsunoki]

3 hours ago, 1kinko said:

Note diamond shaped nanako.

Possibly done with fine cross hatching rather than a punch??

[ROKUJURO]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:55 PM, Matsunoki said:

....Another question……if the artist made a bad “strike” ie missed his mark, was/is there a way of recovering the situation?....

Yes. It is called SEPPUKU. 

[Spartancrest]

11 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

On 9/10/2024 at 3:55 AM, Matsunoki said:

....Another question……if the artist made a bad “strike” ie missed his mark, was/is there a way of recovering the situation?....

Yes. It is called SEPPUKU. 

There is an instruction book in the downloads section      

 

 

 

Yum I feel like a snack!    

 

[Spartancrest]

I have been looking for this for some time - many types of nanako on the one tsuba.  https://www.metmuseu...lection/search/35144  Unfortunately the museum does not have much information.

Image has been lightened.

[1kinko]

One like this was for sale at the San Francisco show about 6 years ago. I presume it was a tsubashi's example piece at one time.

[Spartancrest]

Another more colourful example in the V&A  https://collections..../item/O465753/tsuba/