LF pre muromachi tosogu

[PhoenixDude]

I know this is a long shot but I am looking for any tosogu someone might be willing to part with that's pre muromachi, like the tsuba that was sold here a while back.

[Ed]

You should probably be more specific.  There were early fittings of iron and soft metal pieces as well as various schools and motifs. Knowing more about your preferences might help. Additionally, it is difficult to know exact dates of fittings manufacture. Very few that I have seen have had papers with dates or period attributions. Some fittings will be attributed to schools such as "ko-mino", "ko-kinko", but that generally indicates "pre-Edo".

 

[PhoenixDude]

If we are talking tsuba, Kinko works in either nademaru or aoi/mokko gata, If papered would probably be tachi kanagushi, ko-kinko, or ko-kagamishi, no kozuka or kogai ana. Decorations usually simple and technically uncomplex. menuki would be in/yon or Makoto menuki, papered to ko-kinko or ko-mino.

[Curran]

As someone who has been in this for 25-30 years, finding pre muromachi kinko is going to be hell of a longshot.

    I've owned one silver+tin+bronze+????  tachi tsuba of that age, and really shouldn't have sold it.

    I own two iron tsuba of that age, and kick around the idea of selling the ubu one of simple design. I keep putting it off. Maybe next year, maybe next year, maybe next year. Many years have passed.

 

Good luck on finding kinko tsuba of that age. Most of the very old Ko-kinko tsuba of that age that I have seen are Juyo.

[ROKUJURO]

Well, there are pre-EDO TSUBA like KO-TOSHO or KO-KACHUSHI on the market if they were acceptable.

[PhoenixDude]

Looking for older than that. My goal is to eventually get a kamakura/heiean tachi and have it mounted in period correct koshirae the way it would have been when it was made.

[ROKUJURO]

Jay,

the earliest KO-TOSHO TSUBA were produced from as early as KAMAKURA period or even at the end of HEIAN period. Early enough? 

Ornate soft metal TACHI TSUBA from that era might be quite rare.

[PhoenixDude]

That's early enough, I was under the impression ko katsucchi and ko tosho started in the muromachi period, and the tsuba before that were usually nerikawa or kinko construction. I'm not a tetsu tsuba guy so pardon my ignorance.

And I'm not so concerned about ornateness as I would be for a later artistic piece for my collection.

[lonely panet]

Im not sure you realise how much this journey will cost you or how long it will take. Head to the DTI and search the dealers

[PhoenixDude]

Thanks for the advice. I go every two years.

[Curran]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:55 PM, PhoenixDude said:

That's early enough, I was under the impression ko katsucchi and ko tosho started in the muromachi period, and the tsuba before that were usually nerikawa or kinko construction. I'm not a tetsu tsuba guy so pardon my ignorance.

And I'm not so concerned about ornateness as I would be for a later artistic piece for my collection.

 

Earlier than that.

I have a ko kat and ko tosho that are late Nambokuchu to earliest Oei, which is the time period of blades I prefer.

The earliest kinko tsuba I have are a mid muromachi tachi tsuba and a mid muromachi kogatana tsuba with one of the earlier shaped kozuka ana (tall thin domed one) without a corresponding kogai ana.

 

[Iekatsu]

Finding an ubu pre Muromachi Tachi Tsuba is extremely hard, like winning the lottery, finding a set of the other fittings will be basically impossible. Have you considered commissioning a modern craftsman to make period correct fittings?

[Tim Evans]

Jidai koshirae material rarely turns up on Yahoo Japan but it does happen. Here is a pile of parts that was offered that included a leather covered tachi saya. I think the unwrapped tsuka went with it. I bid on this but did not get it, the bidding went a lot higher than I was willing to risk based on the picture. Also a leather covered tsuba from a different auction that would have been a good visual fit. 

 

 

 

There is this tsuba currently for sale on Yahoo Japan. The seller claims it is Nabokucho, but I think I would need to research it more before agreeing. 

 

 

 

Another approach is to work with a US dealer that has well established connections to the Japanese dealers and collectors, such as Fred Weissberg, Bob Benson, or Andy Quirt to name a few. Also Boris Markhasin is a specialist in jidai material. It may be possible for one of them to dig up what you are looking for since such items are normally not offered to the general public. 

 

A third approach is to check with the big auction houses, Sotheby's Christies, Bonhams, etc. Sometimes old tachi koshirae, usually with the blade, turns up there.