A nice video about types of Grain Patterns

[Pierre F]

I'm sorry if you knew this, I found it fascinating.

[George KN]

Thanks for sharing! We definitely need more videos like this

[Lewis B]

Very educational. Finally I understand the differences between Itame and Itame/Masame Hada. Would be even more educational if the content provider had included the Gokaden/Smith/Era.

[Pierre F]

Thank you very mutch for your feedback. I was hoping that it could be useful/ interesting/ appreciable for some.

 

I'm pretty crazy about the "jigane" (grain pattern) I'm nor sure if it is the right word.

 

However, do you know a swordsmith "Norishige" (apparently a Masamume student) mentioned in the video bellow :

 

 

I believe this "Mitsukawa Hada" is absolutely incredibly beautiful... Is there other swordsmith/school have something comparable ?

 

[atm]

Pierre—you’ll find a lot written about the very famous Norishige and his unique matsukawa-hada here at NMB and in many other sources. There are other swordsmiths with matsukawa-hada, but Norishige’s is distinct, in my opinion. It is beautiful.

[Pierre F]

Thank you Adam, you are right he is very famous ... for obvious reasons...

 

I inquired in the meantime (unfortunately after my post) It is reassuring that certain criteria of artistic quality are objective. This is not always the case in my very humble opinion... for example for architecture... anyway I'll try to find the Swordsmiths with a "similar" style... If you have any names to submit or whose qualities are remarkable, do not hesitate.

 

 

[Lewis B]

6 minutes ago, Pierre F said:

If you have any names to submit or whose qualities are remarkable, do not hesitate.

 

 

 

Hard to ignore Hasebe, if you like crazy Jackson Pollack-esque jihada and hamon.

[Pierre F]

Thank Lewis B ...I will  google Hasebe right know ;P

[atm]

Some Uda school, early Edo Norifusa, and Hankei blades have matsukawa-hada.

[Lewis B]

Full name Hasebe Kunishige (長谷部国重) . He is considered to be one of the Masamune Juttetsu.

[Pierre F]

Thanks again Lewis and Adam !

 

After seeing all the Hasebe Kunishige work pictures I found.

I give you my first thoughts as a complete neophyte (please be indulgent I'm trying to understand and eventually ,on long term, acquire some "eye")

 

Is is very different from Norishige. I'm trying to understand the "Jigane" and for the pictures I saw from Hasebe Work, my impressions are  that the "Jackson Pollock" wondefull feeling is more a work around the "Hamon" techniques that a work on the  Tamahagane and the vey first steps of forging process.

For what I saw on the pictures, I imagine the typicity of Hasebe could come more from a work on the "last stages" (heat treatment) of sword making.

 

Of course I can imagine both are linked, and I don't know if my impressions make any sense but I share my feeling.

 

I will try to find some Uda school, Norifusa, and Hankei during the week end (nice perspective):P

 

thanks again.

 

 

 

[Lewis B]

3 hours ago, Pierre F said:

Thanks again Lewis and Adam !

 

After seeing all the Hasebe Kunishige work pictures I found.

I give you my first thoughts as a complete neophyte (please be indulgent I'm trying to understand and eventually ,on long term, acquire some "eye")

 

Is is very different from Norishige. I'm trying to understand the "Jigane" and for the pictures I saw from Hasebe Work, my impressions are  that the "Jackson Pollock" wondefull feeling is more a work around the "Hamon" techniques that a work on the  Tamahagane and the vey first steps of forging process.

For what I saw on the pictures, I imagine the typicity of Hasebe could come more from a work on the "last stages" (heat treatment) of sword making.

 

Of course I can imagine both are linked, and I don't know if my impressions make any sense but I share my feeling.

 

I will try to find some Uda school, Norifusa, and Hankei during the week end (nice perspective):P

 

thanks again.

 

 

Yes, the crazy hamon is the result of the hardening or Yaki Ire when the blade is tempered. Probably the effect of his clay treatment. Certainly quite unique for the period. The jihada are not comparable to that of Norishige. I had the opportunity to handle a Norishige blade at the last NBTHK-EB meeting. It appeared to be from his earlier phases whilst the one in that Bill Rannow vid is from the end of his career when he focused more on making the Matsukawa hada more of a prominent feature. Personally I prefer his earlier work and this is a great example. I will have the honour to view a Masamune blade on Monday. So excited as there are very few outside Japan.

 

[Pierre F]

Thank you very mutch for this precisions !

When I saw Hasebe Kunishige's work, I understood your comparison with Pollok. A pictorial parallel and very well seen from my perspective.

Your picture is very interesting I believe de Jihada is similar the the one on the Rannow video. Maybe less exuberant... more modest. Apart from the effects of the photo or settings like polishing etc.. One might think that all the potential is already the least asserted. Maybe more of a tool/ functional vision than a complete "artistic"/ historical one. This seems to corroborate your description of his age and evolution.

 

I believe I should do like you and try to push my motivation and luck to see some swords.

 

I'm pretty sure your Monday will be unforgettable. Thank you again and enjoy

 

 

[Lewis B]

This is the Norishige you reference. To me the artistic focus is quite different. The DNA is unmistakable though. 

 

 

[Jacques D.]

Do you really think we can learn to read a hada from this video? If so, you really have some questions to ask yourself about your understanding of the subject.

[Mark S.]

[atm]

A good student of any discipline learns from many sources, including hands-on/in person experiences, books, written descriptions, and videos like posted above. The best asset any student has is an open mind.

[Pierre F]

Jacques, You are absolutely right, impossible to learn to read hada on this video... nor on photos and I am sorry if I could have implied otherwise.

 

The only thing I'm trying to "develop" here is my fantasy of understanding better, later, when I would see with my own eyes. Looking at a photo of the Mona Lisa, a sunset or a dish in a restaurant is only intended to develop the fantasy (or memory) while reducing possible frustration (that of not being able to do, touch, see, smell or hear). The field seems to me so vast and rich that it seems impossible to understand in its entirety(to consider that this is possible in a lifetime).

It is unfortunate not to be able to learn the history of medieval Japan, learn to read and translate Kanji, understand the technical subtleties of the different blacksmiths through the different eras as well as the physics related to metals... all at the same time. It is easier for me to develop fantasy and passion that way  I could develop the motivation for read, seach and study... that in the very long term maybe could become "competence".

 

All this is hope .. time and "Work" in a way to find my "sweet spot" for the motivation/learning curve. I know that i don't know so .. wish me good luck ;p

 

Of course i will be very happy to have any of your advices that could help. 

[Bazza]

I'm reminded of Hokusai who was recorded as saying at 80 years of age "If I live long enough I might become a good artist".

 

Well, I'm 80 and if I live long enough I might become a good student of Nihonto, recognising that after absorbing 16 years of the Message Board and looking at many swords and having numerous swords polished, I'm not really good at anything!!  Kantei is enough to send one to a wailing wall...

 

Keep up the good work Pierre and if you should ever get to Australia be sure to let me know.

 

BaZZa.

[Pierre F]

Thank you BaZZa for your warm encouragement. I'm going to keep trying to learn as well as I can.

 

Not just out of reciprocity, but because it's important for me to meet nice and interesting people, be sure that if you're visiting the old continent, my door is wide open. I have no swords, but I'm confident on my capacity to listen, to provide something eatable/drinkable and some good coffee.

 

Pierre.

[GeorgeLuucas]

I enjoyed the video, and thank you for sharing! Whether we like it or not, on an internet forum, we are forced to share videos and photos; and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's why a lot of us are here. 

Maybe someday, someone will invent a method to teleport blades through a computer - so we can finally solve the issues of viewing a sword on a screen .

Until then,
Cheers,
-Sam

[Robert S]

Nothing is as good as a blade in hand, but that video is definitely useful to us newbies as a complement to books and other resources.

[Lewis B]

43 minutes ago, Robert S said:

Nothing is as good as a blade in hand, but that video is definitely useful to us newbies as a complement to books and other resources.

Exactly, I look at the photos in some books, catalogs and online and wonder how on Earth anyone is supposed to glean anything of importance. Bonhams and Christies are good examples. 

[Ikko Ikki]

I love that channel.  I just wish they posted more often.  They have some very fine looking swords.