Seeking Dai Token Ichi advice

[atm]

I have never been to the Dai Token Ichi. My calendar this year has freed up to where I could go, but it would have to be a quick trip—arrive Friday afternoon and leave Monday evening. Not having more time in Tokyo is not a big deal as I have been there several times before. So for those who have been to the DTI, is it alone worth 30+ hours of travel and the cost of flights? And how limiting is not knowing Japanese? The photos and catalogs I’ve seen make it look pretty amazing and probably worth the time and expense. Any advice is appreciated.

[Lewis B]

Yet to attend a DTI but plan to in 2025 so I'm interested in the responses, especially from those who have purchased from the participating dealers. My impression from previous reports is that some good deals can be found, but the higher end pieces are generally offered at retail price. With 70+ dealers the selection should be awesome. Based on my experience at the Utrecht event in June at least one of the dealers on a stand will speak some English. A translator app or gadget should fill in the gaps, albeit a little clunky. Unlike events like this in the West it seems there is less pressure to be first through the doors to find the best deals ala Black Friday. 

 

What is the etiquette regarding bargaining? Do the dealers negotiate on a sticker price? Or do the Japanese dealers find this impolite, borderline rude? Are they a bit more negotiable towards the end of the Show? I successfully negotiated a sizeable discount in Utrecht, but I waited until the last day to make an offer and ultimately I think both parties were happy. Was this a fluke? I get the impression from online dealings that prices are fixed (maybe they offer free shipping), unless it's a consignment piece but I have limited experience here. 

[Brian]

Trade is brisk, items move all the time. Large sums of cash flow freely. Slight negotiation isn't frowned upon, but don't try going for huge discounts. You will be able to communicate in English or find someone to convey the message. Lots of Westerners will be present.
Prices do tend to drop a bit towards the end, but best deals will be gone by then.

Don't expect bargains. Market value is the name of the game, but what you will see is variety. It's worth going just for the experience, and to meet people you have spoken to. Very social aspect to it. There doesn't seem to be a mad rush to grab deals...it's very chilled, but professional. Not knowing Japanese was not limiting to me, but hook up with some Westerners you know from the forum or elsewhere, they are a big help. Have business cards. Make sure you do the DTI/NMB social events.
Know your sword etiquette. You'll love it.
Would I go just for the DTI? Personally, not. For that sort of thing, I'd rather do a US show. But to stay for a few days to experience Tokyo, definitely.
 

[David Flynn]

It depends on whether you want to buy a sword or not.  A trip, just to the DTI isn't worth it unless you have money to burn.   Again, if only going for a look, I totally agree with Brian.

[Lewis B]

I plan to attend with the aim to purchase a mid to high end Koto blade (TH with Juyo potential or preferably Juyo). Is it worth talking to the dealers ahead of the show to ensure a blade they have in stock will be in attendance? Is there a list online of the participating dealers? I particularly want to meet the guys/gals at Eirakudo, Katana no Kura, Samurai-Nippon and Touken Komachi. 

 

I am hoping that if I do find a blade I can do what others have done, pay a none refundable deposit for the dealer to hold it and transfer the balance when I return to Germany. Then have it shipped after the registration/export docs are processed. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Lewis, quote: "What is the etiquette regarding bargaining? Do the dealers negotiate on a sticker price? Or do the Japanese dealers find this impolite, borderline rude?"

 

Some very good advice since your post above.

 

I would just add that although there are general unspoken rules, each dealer is quite different in their approach and you will benefit in the long run if you can make a human contact first. Some people naturally click, but others don't. In other words, choosing a sword and choosing a dealer will be of almost equal importance, and to a degree the feeling should be mutual.

[Brian]

TH with Juyo potential? I suspect most of those, if they really have Juyo potential, would have been submitted already, since it's easy in Japan. But finding ones already Juyo will be easy, there are tons. It's a good place if you are a serious buyer. Yes, definitely communicate with dealers beforehand, mention you are coming and will be looking for a purchase, but also note that you will be looking around the show. You may find them bringing something to view.

[Lewis B]

41 minutes ago, Brian said:

TH with Juyo potential? I suspect most of those, if they really have Juyo potential, would have been submitted already, since it's easy in Japan. 

True, but many blades are acquired from older private collections and may not have been submitted. It's time consuming to submit, even if easier for a local, and the dealer may just want a quick turnover. Or the blade might have failed one particular year merely because the competition in that Shinsa year was especially tough. The dealer may not be inclined to resubmit a year or 2 later.

[Toryu2020]

It is a great opportunity to study, in-hand, the work of just about any of the most important artists. Decide what you want to see, visit every booth and note the items you'd like to study in-hand, go back and spend uninterrupted time with each piece on your list. There are few places you can say I want to see Yamashiro works today and have twenty such pieces on hand. By all means attend the Kamakura kantei-kai and the Yakatabune trip but I would focus on getting there early and spending the day studying the best swords you can see...

[Brano]

It is important to realize that most sellers know very well what they are selling
If the blade has TH papers and has real potential to get a Juyo then the price will be close to being a Juyo
Sellers know how to play this game better than you - unless you have excellent knowledge and experience, don't expect to buy a gem at a price well below market value
The papers are just papers, the price is determined by the quality or exceptionality of the blade itself

[Lewis B]

2 hours ago, Brano said:

It is important to realize that most sellers know very well what they are selling
If the blade has TH papers and has real potential to get a Juyo then the price will be close to being a Juyo
Sellers know how to play this game better than you - unless you have excellent knowledge and experience, don't expect to buy a gem at a price well below market value
The papers are just papers, the price is determined by the quality or exceptionality of the blade itself

It's 15 months until DTI 2025 and I plan to attend as many NBTHK-EB meetings as possible, the next Japan Art Expo in Utrecht and the Samurai Museum in Berlin before I leave. Hopefully this will educate my eye and help me separate the wheat from the chaff. I know immeasurably more than I did 6 months ago. And there is no substitute for seeing blades in person, which is the most important aspect of nihonto connoisseurship. I hope I will have learned enough to make an educated choice and know the market well enough to not over pay.