How common was religious imagery on tsuba?

[Jesta]

On 10/31/2024 at 5:55 AM, Tim Evans said:

Presented is a Higo tsuba that bears a strong similarity to a Catholic monstrance. I attribute this one to Hirata, although Nishigaki has been suggested. A monstrance is a Catholic ritual object, an example below. 

I find this one interesting since it also bears a strong resemblance to the halo of the Buddha. I am not sure how you would be able to immediately attribute it to Buddhism or Catholicism, although that may have been the point… 

There seem to be a lot of cultural similarities in how the divine is represented, with the Christian halo coming from depictions of Greek deities, and halos also appearing in art from the East, and being depicted in very similar ways. 

[Jesta]

On 10/13/2024 at 5:51 PM, Alex A said:

Seen 2 described as "Christian" here, make of them what you will.

 

The Lanes Armoury | A Stunning Edo Period Tettsu {iron Plate} Krishitan {Christian.} Tsuba, Of The Holy Cross, Heavenly Eight Pointed Stars in Gold, & The River Of Life in Silver. In Superb Condition & From A Very Fine Collection of Tsuba.

 

 

The Lanes Armoury | An Edo Tettsu Krishitan {Christian} Tsuba Of Twin Symbols of The Rope And The Cross. In Superb Condition & Traditionally Boxed For Display. From A Very Fine Collection Of Beautiful Antique Tsuba

I have no idea how they get to “Christian” from either of those… I suppose that they could be Christian, but the representations do not seem to be explicitly Christian. 

[Spartancrest]

59 minutes ago, Jesta said:

I have no idea how they get to “Christian” from either of those

Tea room window and a rope!  VERY CHRISTIAN - in some other universe!  

Still if you are trying to sell what are in fact very ordinary and common tsuba for inflated prices as this company is clearly doing, even made up story lines of what they depict might aid in "moving them on". Let us not forget there is BS in the word business.  

 

There is a whole thread on the Tearoom window type of guards so I won't bother digging those out, but plenty of rope tsuba getting about also - no mention of any religious context!

https://www.aoijapan.jp/鍔無銘-14/     https://page.auction.../auction/u1160512611    https://www.the-sale...9e-907b-ac7c011d611c

[Alex A]

5 hours ago, Jesta said:

I have no idea how they get to “Christian” from either of those… I suppose that they could be Christian, but the representations do not seem to be explicitly Christian. 

 

Its the Lanes, where every item has a special story. an item cannot just be an item.

[Mantis dude]

I saw a documentary on the Roman Emperor Constantine who was the one that adopted Christianity as the main religion for Rome.  Checking on his military conquest monument in Paris, they wanted to see the imagery being displayed to determine if he was a "true" believer or not.  Christianity appealed to lots of Roman soldiers, especially the idea of forgiveness and continuation of the soul in the afterlife.  looking at the monument both pagan and Christian symbols were used meaning it seemed he was hedging his bets paying respect to the old and new ways, more of a political move.  one pagan image was a halo type symbol that we see Christians start using to depict Christ with.  Basically like many other instances in human history, prior religious imagery had morphed into the "new" religion.  Was interesting to see how the political side of religion was used along with the evolution of old symbols into new ones.  So seeing imagery as both would make sense. 

[Spartancrest]

9 hours ago, Mantis dude said:

one pagan image was a halo type symbol that we see Christians start using to depict Christ

I saw a documentary on how the halo developed from a round board attached to the head on statues, particularly early saints - it was intended to keep the birds from crapping on the faces! The hollow circlet 'halo' would now act as a good roosting post and end up having the opposite effect! 

[Jesta]

4 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

I saw a documentary on how the halo developed from a round board attached to the head on statues, particularly early saints - it was intended to keep the birds from crapping on the faces! The hollow circlet 'halo' would now act as a good roosting post and end up having the opposite effect! 

The halo seems to come from ancient Roman and Greek depictions of the gods, particularly the sun gods (with a sun behind their heads). See for example:

https://www.research...hrist_fig3_319605856 

 

The same seems to be true of the depictions of angels, where they are depicted as very similar to Greek gods and goddesses with wings. The Biblical descriptions of angels are wild… great balls of eyes and stuff, not the human forms we are used to.