Grandfather's Korea War Bring Back Sword

[cjharpy]

This is gonna be a crossover thread from my original: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=971983

 

Overall length: shade under 37"

 

Any information would be great!

[mdiddy]

The tang is signed "Chikushu ju Minamoto Nobukuni Yoshikane". Yoshikane was a quality smith of the Nobukuni school working in Chikuzen province ca. 1680. The school and this smith were fairly well-regarded. If legit it would be a nice find. The hamon is suguha (straight) which is not entirely expected from this smith but was used broadly by the school. As well, the school was known for carving horimono on the blade, which yours shows, so that also supports legitimacy. More research is needed. Would you also be able to provide the length of the blade from tip to notches above the tang?

 

I'm not as knowledgeable about fittings but they look nice to my eyes. Perhaps someone else can comment on them.

 

I'm a fan of this school so thanks for sharing and maybe we can track down some more info for you.

 

Matt

[Gabriel L]

Signed kodogu of high quality is a nice touch (signed waves fuchi/kashira in shakudo and gold, signed iron tsuba, shakudo and gold "lion dogs" shishi menuki). The saya is low-grade WWII-era but the tsuka is high-quality original. Silver habaki are usually later Edo period or newer. You may want to cross-post in the Tosogu forum for more expert opinions on the fittings; try retaking your fuchi and tsuba photos with correct focus so that they can read the signatures.

 

The horimono are pretty well done, nice Buddhist inscription with bonji. Hi is crisp, geometry nice. Condition is remarkably good for a sword that certainly hasn't received proper care in decades; besides the hazing over of the polish and some light rust (both of which could be undone by a PROFESSIONAL TOGISHI—do NOT attempt restoration yourself!!), the only lamentable issue is the broken tip. The hamon looks wide enough so that a togishi might be able to repair it though.

 

Go here: http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm and educate yourself as much as you can stand. Especially read the Sword Care Guide; to summarize, do NOT attempt restoration, don't handle the blade, do not clean the nakago (tang), just apply light mineral oil (you can buy traditional choji oil for this) to the blade to prevent rust.

 

It is absolutely a good quality, old, genuine nihonto (traditionally-made Japanese blade). Matt has filled you in on the relevant details from the mei (signature). Actually confirming that signature would require sending it off to shinsa which can be a bit of a process, but regardless it's still of good quality.

 

We could give you leads and info on how to get it restored, shinsa'd, or both (it would have to be polished before shinsa, waste of time otherwise); or you could enjoy it as-is since the polish hasn't degraded to the point of masking the metallurgical details entirely.

[cjharpy]

I definitely want to get the blade re-polished and tip fixed...I'm gonna see my grandfather on the 24th of Dec. and am very excited to tell him what he (recovered from a Korean soldier) Any leads to a "good" polisher would be appreciated

 

Edited by Admin to be more sensitive

[mdiddy]

As a heads up, restoration/polish requires a pretty significant time+money investment. Depending on who is restoring your sword it can take months to years from the time you send a sword off to the time you receive it back. Prices differ but a quality restoration with the accoutrements for a katana (what you have) will run ~$3k. I'm not trying to dissuade you as I would be very excited if I was finding and learning about this sword, but more to inform you because you may get recommendations that the sword can be 'polished' by amateurs for less or worse by anyone with a grinding wheel trying to 'sharpen' the blade. When we say 'polish' we really mean 'restored', the terms are used interchangeably, and are only loosely correlated with making the sword sharp.

 

Here's a link to a post of a sword from the same school freshly restored: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6358. This can give you some sense of the benefits of a restoration and the potential your sword has (same school will have similar attributes). My current opinion from what I see is your sword has potential but a bad 'polish' could diminish that potential fast. Also, given the time/cost you just want to make sure your sword is legit before investing.

 

I can recommend the same polisher who handled the sword in the link and can put you in touch if you like. I sent you a PM so feel free to reach out with questions.

[Gabriel L]

I might add that there's always the possibility of a "window" polish. Not sure if it's necessary in this case because the old polish isn't entirely gone, but for a lower price (~$100) a togishi can work on just a small section of the blade just to reveal some of the details, which would help in checking that the workmanship matches that of the specific school/smith.

 

If it was me I'd just go all or nothing. My personal interest in seeing the sword restored wouldn't hinge on its being a true Nobukuni Yoshikane, especially if I wasn't intending to turn it around and sell it, but at the same time restoration is very expensive. Still, Yoshikane is well-regarded enough that I would also be quite curious to see what they had to say at shinsa! So what can you do. :lol:

[Grey Doffin]

Just my opinion, but I think you should hold off on the restoration until you know more about Japanese swords and how to care for them. Polishing a sword removes some of the skin of the blade (left behind on the stones) and after too many polishes the skin is gone and the inner steel (lesser quality) starts to show through. We call such swords "tired" and consider them seriously defected. Beginners tend to screw up polishes. It's not that they're purposely careless; it just happens that way. Eventually the sword passes on to someone else, who wants to have the blade polished.

Take some time to learn something about Nihonto in general and your sword in particular. Bone up on sword care and etiquette (here's a link: http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm Eventually you'll get to a point where you'll either want to get in deeper and have the sword polished or decide to leave well enough alone. This way the sword won't have to suffer too many polishes.

By the way, the polish isn't necessary to protect/preserve the sword; it changes the appearance only. A light coat of proper oil properly applied is all that is necessary, whether the blade is in polish or not, to protect it.

Thanks for hearing me out. Grey

[Mark]

i would second what Grey said. The sword has been here long before we were and will be here long after we are gone (if we care for them). So keep a light coat of oil on it. read books, go to shows and ask opinions from people who see it. Check the mei, maybe submit to a shinsa in the next few years. Then decide the polish the blade deserves (once you know what you have), and go from there. No need to make a quick decision

[cjharpy]

What should I do to arrest any rust on the blade?

[mdiddy]

Get some mineral oil from a local pharmacy or wal-mart (should be very cheap). Apply a light coat, maybe 2-3 drops, to a lent-free cloth and then rub down the length of the blade. Repeat for other side. You don't want to apply too much where its dripping but you do want to cover the entire surface area. This coat of oil will prevent further rusting from occuring. Applying this coat once every month or two will keep the blade in its current condition. Also, apply the oil to the blade only, not the nakago (tang where the signature is). Just leave it as is. Its rust is old, expected, and not materially degrading anything.

 

Grey provided good advice and his link should run you through the process on how to handle and manage the care of the sword.

[cjharpy]

Ok, that's exactly what I did per someone else telling me to.

 

To what Grey said, I mean I can see buying all those ceremonial cleaning products if the blade is polished and all but are they gonna serve me any better then using mineral oil ( I hear also heard use a hint of clove oil like a 9:1 ratio)

[mdiddy]

Functionally, mineral oil is fine.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Nice blade, it deserves a good restoration.

[Jean]

Agreed with Jacques, but have a polisher opinion on the kissaki first (I don't see very well the boshi)

[cjharpy]

I was looking at the Hamon a little closer and it had a very slight wave. My question is...Does the shape of the hamon have any effect on the value or quality of the sword?

[Jean]

Some says that a great wavy pattern can lead in a weakness of the hardened edge

Some says that the best is suguha for cutting ability and steadiness

 

Value : depends on the taste, some prefers flashy hamon, others prefers the subtility/activity of the stern suguha

[cjharpy]

A guy on AR15 translated the HORIMONO as:

 

The four character one as: the first character is a Buddhist symbol, and the next 4 characters states the word "Marishi-ten" which means the goddess of heaven, goddess of light.

 

Three character as:the first character is a Buddhist symbol, the second character is the number "eight", and the third character means "banner". "Eight Banner" or "Hachiman" which is the God of war, and protector of the Japanese people.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

Does the shape of the hamon have any effect on the value or quality of the sword?

 

Value : depends on the taste, some prefers flashy hamon, others prefers the subtility/activity of the stern suguha

 

Agree, since the hamon is fixed the one variable that can have significant impact is the quality of the polish and how the polisher brings out and presents the hamon. A good sword deserves a good polisher!

[sencho]

A guy on AR15 translated the HORIMONO as:

 

The four character one as: the first character is a Buddhist symbol, and the next 4 characters states the word "Marishi-ten" which means the goddess of heaven, goddess of light.

 

I have these as:

1. Hiro...?? more complex form of 広 ....?? (speculation, but I do not see "ma")

2. "Toshi" or "Ri"

3. Unsure

4. "ten"

 

Three character as:the first character is a Buddhist symbol, the second character is the number "eight", and the third character means "banner". "Eight Banner" or "Hachiman" which is the God of war, and protector of the Japanese people.

 

I read this 八幡　as "yawata" or "yahata" or "hatchi man" (as you have said)... the two first could be place, city or shrine related...

 

Mr. Moriyama or one of the other Japanese will tell you more definitely.... I'll be interested to find out...

 

Cheers

[cjharpy]

When I search wiki ( I know not very scientific) they seem to look very similiar

[sencho]

When I search wiki ( I know not very scientific) they seem to look very similiar

 

摩

 

I do not believe it is this "ma"... but Moriyama san will tell us for sure....

 

Cheers

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

摩 can be read MA (ON reading)

[sencho]

Hi Jacques,

 

Yes that is right... my point was that I do not think that this is the particular Kanji in question..

 

Do you have an idea what that character is?

 

Cheers

[reinhard]

Some says that a great wavy pattern can lead in a weakness of the hardened edge

Some says that the best is suguha for cutting ability and steadiness

 

It's the same thing with EEGs. Great wavy patterns are indicating potential weakness and trouble of the worst kind. It's best to concentrate on flatliners.*

 

reinhard

 

*with kind permission by Wysocki medical school. BTW next semester they are offering great courses in basket weaving and advanced shoe-tying.