Horse theme (kutsuwa?) tsuba atobori mon

[Ron M]

Good afternoon to you all, I understand this tsuba is not in any condition of good but wanted any info you may have. Looks to be missing pretty much all of the zogan, and the mon seem to be missing. Looking at it seems to be that it was a solid plate with the carvings of the tack and then the Ana were added at a later date. Comes on a large katana with kiri style mon menuki.

size is 77mm pretty much all around.

 Respectfully 

Ron

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Ron,

 

Interesting tsuba.  I think you are correct that the hitsu-ana were added later.  They appear to be cut right through the horse tack motif.

 

I can also see where the kamon would have been inlaid in the bottom picture.  One below the hitsu-ana on the left side, and the other above the hitsu-ana on the right side.

 

I am wondering if this tsuba could have been cast, and then hand worked?  Probably not cast, since I think it would be difficult (or maybe impossible?) to cut those hitsu-ana into a cast iron tsuba.

 

Anyway, I am sure other members will tell you much more about it.

 

Onward!

[Spartancrest]

I look at it and the more I look the nakago-ana twists my brain. [in a good way] It looks off centre with the outside shape but then perfectly in-line with the hitsu

  Then if you try changing the nakago-ana to fit the outside design there is not enough of a hole to fit the tang? So what came first, the shape then the nakago-ana was deliberately put in out of alignment? Could the outside shape have been altered? This is a mystery piece to me - my brain hurts! 

[Jake6500]

1 hour ago, Spartancrest said:

I look at it and the more I look the nakago-ana twists my brain. [in a good way] It looks off centre with the outside shape but then perfectly in-line with the hitsu

  Then if you try changing the nakago-ana to fit the outside design there is not enough of a hole to fit the tang? So what came first, the shape then the nakago-ana was deliberately put in out of alignment? Could the outside shape have been altered? This is a mystery piece to me - my brain hurts! 

 

I think the nakago Ana was placed deliberately off-centre. The reverse option, that the outside shape was altered seems less likely to me as the tsuba features 5 kamon which matches the 5 petalled shape.

[Spartancrest]

Jake, I like the odd ones. Keeps us all guessing  

I wonder if some of these "off centre" ones are designed to act as a katana-kake, that is, a way for the sword to lay on a flat surface, when you don't have access to a stand, without rolling?

[Kantaro]

Once mounted on a katana the "off centre" feeling should be balanced by the blade.

[zanilu]

If you look at the very first picture posted, it seems to me that the depression between the lobes goes well with your thumb and index fingers to hold the tsuba when the sword is in the saya. 

Just an observation from the Iaido practitioner point of view.

 

Luca

[Ron M]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:27 AM, zanilu said:

If you look at the very first picture posted, it seems to me that the depression between the lobes goes well with your thumb and index fingers to hold the tsuba when the sword is in the saya. 

Just an observation from the Iaido practitioner point of view.

 

Luca

IMHO You are correct, I believe. My Batto Sensei says It appears that this was set up as a Kobusho koshirae, and probably used as you say. This samurai probably inherited it from a teacher or someone very astute in swordsmanship with this nakago ana placed as such.

[Ron M]

Does anyone have any ideas as to the maker or school of creation for this piece? It had to have been made this way from the beginning. It doesn’t appear to be modified “from” something. I agree the side Ana were added later, but….

any other thoughts? 
regards

[Jake6500]

3 hours ago, Ron M said:

Does anyone have any ideas as to the maker or school of creation for this piece? It had to have been made this way from the beginning. It doesn’t appear to be modified “from” something. I agree the side Ana were added later, but….

any other thoughts? 
regards

 

Hey Ron,

 

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to narrow down the school or specific artisan but i would guess that they may have produced this tsuba in the Satsuma region, or as a commissioned work for a Satsuma samurai based on the apparent Shimazu crest on each of the "petals" of the tsuba.

 

Maybe researching artisan schools from Satsuma (Southern Kyushu) might give you some leads.

[Ron M]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:27 AM, zanilu said:

If you look at the very first picture posted, it seems to me that the depression between the lobes goes well with your thumb and index fingers to hold the tsuba when the sword is in the saya. 

Just an observation from the Iaido practitioner point of view.

 

Luca

I have read your file on Yoshiro tsuba. I think this has the Heianjo/Yoshiro look and feel. If you have any feedback about this “feel” I have then let me know please. 
respectfully yours

[zanilu]

53 minutes ago, Ron M said:

I have read your file on Yoshiro tsuba. I think this has the Heianjo/Yoshiro look and feel. If you have any feedback about this “feel” I have then let me know please. 
respectfully yours

If I have to bet I will go for Heianjo Zogan more than Yoshiro... Even though Onin or one of the Shoami branch could not be discarded.  Brass hira zogan was done by many. Attribution often can be a mess... Sometimes even NBTHK have done "strange" attribution... 

 

Regards

Luca

[Ron M]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:29 PM, Jake6500 said:

 

Hey Ron,

 

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to narrow down the school or specific artisan but i would guess that they may have produced this tsuba in the Satsuma region, or as a commissioned work for a Satsuma samurai based on the apparent Shimazu crest on each of the "petals" of the tsuba.

 

Maybe researching artisan schools from Satsuma (Southern Kyushu) might give you some leads.

 Hi again, I have spent tooooo much time researching but I did find this piece and the statement from Robert Haynes says a lot. See attached (I hope I have permission to use this pic)