Wooden menuki and other simple koshirae

[Ghoul]

With time I've come to really appreciate the simple koshirae of my o-wakisashi. It has made me wonder whether a samurai was down on their luck and couldn't afford a better koshirae, or alternatively a lord trying to quickly equip an army with as many blades as possible.

 

Does anyone else have any wooden menuki? I can't seem to find a single thread about them here?

 

(The mekugi peg was originally the same colour and type of wood, but the auction lost it before it got to me 🤦‍♂️)

 

 

 

Also feel free to share your own workhorse koshirae or fittings - I know they aren't what people usually collect, and I'd imagine samurai would have upgraded them if possible later, so it makes me wonder what other examples survive!

 

Thanks,

 George

 

 

[Franco D]

16 minutes ago, Ghoul said:

Does anyone else have any wooden menuki?

 

Wooden? Are you certain? Sure don't look wooden in the image.

 

Regards

[Ghoul]

@Franco D They certainly sound like wood when tapped, and look like wood in person (perhaps with a varnish of some kind on?) - admittedly the lighting isn't great in my previous pictures, so this is what it looks with natural light:

 

 

And then some close ups (again with poor lighting):

 

 

 

Is there a more definitive, non-destructive test I can take? 

[Ghoul]

Are wooden menuki uncommon?

[Dan tsuba]

My friend, George.

 

I don’t have any wooden menuki.

 

But I have a daisho set from about 1580 that I know was owned by a poor samurai.

 

The ito was worn in areas on the tsuka of the katana and he replaced the worn ito with wood shavings.

 

The tsuba is inlaid with brass that could have been used in battle, daily wear, or court appearances.

 

So, one tsuba for all occasions!

 

I don’t want to get “weird” on you.  But I have had “vibes” from some of my tsuba.  When holding this daisho, it just communicates to me that the owner was poor.

 

Picture attached of the daisho, although I could not download a picture of the tsuba.  Hey, I am old and totally computer illiterate!

 

Although the wood shavings in the ito are on the other side of the tsuka.  Anyway, interesting stuff!

 

Onward my friend!

 

[Ghoul]

Hi Dan, it is good to see someone else has some worn koshirae! A daisho too, wow.

 

It would be great if possible to see some of the wood shavings if you can, as I've never seen that before. It definitely sounds like someone had hit hard times if they still needed the swords but couldn't afford a proper repair...

 

If they couldn't afford a replacement I imagine it must have been in use a lot longer than most - imagine the things that daisho has seen!

 

 

[Franco D]

41 minutes ago, Ghoul said:

Are wooden menuki uncommon?

 

 In 33 years of collecting have never seen or even heard of wooden menuki. But when it comes to things nihonto that doesn't necessarily mean anything as almost always there are exceptions. If I had to "guess" I would say that these are copper based.

Going a step further .... I'd even say these menuki might be from the Nara school.

As for a non invasive test perhaps someone else might chime in?  

 

Regards

Edited August 5 by Franco D

[PhoenixDude]

looks like shinchu or yamagane to me. On a side note, I did have a Yamato Daijo Fujiwara Masanori wakizashi I sold years ago that had a Jomon period arrowhead wrapped in the tsuka as a solo menuki on one side. 

[Dan tsuba]

Yes my friend!  Imagine the things that daisho has seen!  Too cool!

 

Unfortunately, my daisho is in Arizona.  Right now I am in Wyoming!

 

Maybe one day I will take a picture of the other side of the daisho katana showing the wood shavings placed in the ito when I get back to Arizona.

 

But hell, I probably will never remember to do that!

 

Anyway, some interesting stuff.

 

The "vibes" I get from a few of my tsuba (and this daisho) is just something I attribute to the messages from the Universe!

 

I know, too weird!!

 

Onward!

[Tim Evans]

Maybe they are ivory or bone by a netsuke carver?

 

I have an old tsuka that has ivory or bone menuki carved in the shape of a tiger's tooth. This fashion likely dates around the time of Hideyoshi's Korean campaign. 

[Ghoul]

52 minutes ago, Franco D said:

 

 In 33 years of collecting have never seen or even heard of wooden menuki. But when it comes to things nihonto that doesn't necessarily mean anything as almost always there are exceptions. If I had to "guess" I would say that these are copper based.

 

Wooden menuki aren't a thing?! I always assumed they would be on cheaper fittings - along with another blade I bought at the same auction, this was the first sword I ever owned, so I guess I never thought anything about it until today

 

Also, I think copper is unlikely, because there is no green patina at all, even though all the other fittings show considerable wear (I've found more natural lighting pics):

 

 

And here are two pics from the auction with much better lighting (and the original mekugi which matches):

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Tim Evans said:

Maybe they are ivory or bone by a netsuke carver?

 

I have an old tsuka that has ivory or bone menuki carved in the shape of a tiger's tooth. This fashion likely dates around the time of Hideyoshi's Korean campaign. 

 

Just based on sound alone, I can't discount ivory or bone - it definitely makes a more natural tapping sound, and the patina would make more sense... Still not sure how to test it one way or another though?

 

 

52 minutes ago, PhoenixDude said:

looks like shinchu or yamagane to me. On a side note, I did have a Yamato Daijo Fujiwara Masanori wakizashi I sold years ago that had a Jomon period arrowhead wrapped in the tsuka as a solo menuki on one side. 

 

That is genuinely awesome! Has to be a strong contender for the oldest nihonto fitting... I really do like the sentimentality/connection to the past that someone must have had to make use it. 

[Tensho]

Looks copper to me with some verdigris forming?

[Franco D]

7 hours ago, Ghoul said:

Also, I think copper is unlikely, because there is no green patina at all

 

Green patina???  Uh, no. It's called verdigris as Matt E. is pointing out. 

 

While shibuichi can have a slight greenish hue to it depending upon its make up, this ain't it.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

These are so obviously metal and NOT wood

[Matsunoki]

Hello George

 

i think it’s worth remembering that a great many Samurai were “poor”. Being a Samurai did not equate to immediate wealth….often quite the opposite. The fine koshirae and armours that we see in films/exhibitions/books etc were in reality owned and worn by the very small minority of those that enjoyed a high rank and/or considerable wealth. It follows therefore that many koshirae, in fact the vast majority,  appear to be of modest quality sometimes assembled from a variety of mis-matched pieces. 

Also even a nice set of fittings (especially iron) can look pretty ordinary if neglected in a shed for more than 100 years. 

….and these menuki are metal, most likely copper-as others have already said.

[sabiji]

11 hours ago, Dan tsuba said:

My friend, George.

 

I don’t have any wooden menuki.

 

But I have a daisho set from about 1580 that I know was owned by a poor samurai.

 

 

 

Hello Dan,

don't be angry with me, but this doesn't look like a Daisho set from around 1580 to me. At least the tsuka show no similarities with the type one would expect for the Tensho period.

 

An original tensho daisho would be priceless.

 

 

The menuki look like shinshu or copper. 

[Ghoul]

Hi guys, I woke up this morning and immediately knew how I could settle this - I have a pinpointer for metal detecting downstairs...

 

Turns out I was wrong! The menuki are indeed metal, and I have learnt something yet again 😄

 

Thanks for helping correct my assumption and broadening my understanding of the materials they can be made of.

 

Does anyone else have examples of humble koshirae they can show me so I can compare with my own?

[Brian]

I know we all like the romantic idea that swords were all owned by samurai, but the truth is that the vast majority were likely owned by merchants and others, unrelated to the samurai. Doesn't change the desirability of these swords in my books.

[Ghoul]

Including thieves, bandits, and pirates? 🏴‍☠️ (No, I will not stop romanticising my swords )

[ROKUJURO]

6 minutes ago, Brian said:

I know we all like the romantic idea that swords were all owned by samurai, but the truth is that the vast majority were likely owned by merchants and others.....

....at least the shorter ones, but probably not the long blades like KATANA and TACHI.

[sabiji]

Well, Brian is not entirely wrong, even when it comes to long blades. It may be that the vast majority of merchants were not allowed to carry long swords. But they did own them. Some important merchants were sword enthusiasts and owned extensive collections of first-class swords.

[Dan tsuba]

Hey Ghoul (George),

 

I finally found pictures of those tsuba that are attached to my daisho (man, I didn't even know I had those on my computer!)

 

Anyway, just some interesting stuff I thought I would add here since I couldn't edit my previous post and add the pictures.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

4 hours ago, sabiji said:

.....Some important merchants were sword enthusiasts and owned extensive collections of first-class swords.

The question is: Were they allowed to carry them?

[Ghoul]

4 hours ago, Dan tsuba said:

I finally found pictures of those tsuba that are attached to my daisho (man, I didn't even know I had those on my computer!)

 

Hey again Dan, I really do like those tsuba! Thanks for sharing 

[sabiji]

14 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

The question is: Were they allowed to carry them?

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But is that important ?

I can imagine that merchants in particular were an important clientele for swordsmiths, but also for Kodogu workshops, simply because they had the necessary financial means. 

 

But that's not my point at all. Especially when it comes to katana, it is very difficult to find a koshirae that already existed with ALL its components AND the blade before 1868.

 

That's why, from my own experience, I'm less interested in who might have carried sword xy, but rather whether sword xy was carried in this constellation at all. 

 

Swords in mounts are easier to sell, and what doesn't fit is simply made to fit.

And even with dealers here in Europe, who also like to buy back their sold pieces, I have experienced several times that swords known to me suddenly had different tsuka, tsuba, kozuka and kogai.

A few months ago, a collector asked me to admire a particular sword. The koshirae was definitely en suite and interesting. But I was particularly pleased about the blade! It was a reunion after more than 20 years! I had imported this blade from Japan myself back then. Back then, the blade only had a shirasaya...

So, to come back to the first sentences written in this thread: don't read too much into certain things (Koshirae)! 

[ROKUJURO]

1 hour ago, sabiji said:

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But is that important ?...

Thomas,

I think, definitely yes.

In EDO JIDAI, they had many rules that had to be followed. If it is correct that merchants were the only ones besides the SAMURAI (who had to carry a DAISHO or at least two swords) to be allowed to carry a WAKIZASHI in public, you can assume that they wanted to show their wealth and good taste with an outstanding and sometimes even flamboyant KOSHIRAE. 
Having a precious collection at home wouldn't have impressed anyone - non-family members or friends were very rarely allowed to see the house from the inside! 

As far as swords are concerned, the main difference between a merchant and a SAMURAI was probably a spiritual one. While SAMURAI followed BUSHIDO rules and were very much attached to their swords, merchants very likely had a different approach. Their main objective was to represent what they could afford, and KOSHIRAE or swords might have been interchangeable from time to time.

Besides all expressions of individual taste and court rules, SAMURAI often had a more functional view as we see in many rather modest KOSHIRAE. Of course, there were also some rich SAMURAI and DAIMYO with important swords in their OBI, but these are not numerous.
 

[sabiji]

Jean,

what I wanted to say was that original koshirae, whether worn by a merchant or a samurai, are important cultural relics, windows into the past. If they are original!

 

A (family) sword has gone through many generations with different demands or tastes, and besides, koshirae are wear items. Even if an owner in the Edo period never used it as a weapon in his life - but, as you say, had to carry it every day - all the organic components of the koshirae have to be replaced at some point.

 

Therefore, the vast majority of surviving original koshirae are not that old and date from the late Edo period. The percentage of older koshirae becomes smaller and smaller the further back in time we go. But this is not unknown to you.

 

And so you can deduce the cultural characteristics of a certain time from koshirae. As in the Momoyama period, we find both: extremely extroverted koshirae in bright colors and surrounding gold bands on the saya, or the simple, dark, yet elegant uchigana koshirae in the sense of wabi/sabi. The custom of wearing a daisho developed during this period and was to become the norm.

In any case, the koshirae becomes a calling card for the wearer in terms of his taste, origin, education and, of course, his income. More was certainly possible here in the Momoyama and very early Edo period than the rules allowed in the course of the Edo, in order to give a little more leeway again in the late Edo.

In some domains it was naturally viewed somewhat more strictly, in other domains less strictly, and the urban bourgeois culture in Edo or Osaka was a topic in itself.

 

As for the merchants, they created their own space.

 

It is not in the Japanese way, especially for those who consider themselves cultured, to project wealth outwards. In the Momoyama period in particular, the richest merchants - who had become rich through the wars of Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Ieayasu and the trade in guns, steel and leather - were also their most important tea masters and representatives of wabi/sabi. Until the tea ceremony was brought back to the samurai level in early Edo by Furuta Oribe or Kobori Enshu and there was a class separation here again.

As a result, the rich merchants did not follow the Omote principle but the Ura principle. Their wealth was not for everyone to see, they decided who was allowed to see it.

 

There are still preserved or reconstructed houses of important merchants with secret and separate entrances for important customers, including high-ranking samurai or lords, with delicate and tasteful gardens and rooms with fine works of art.

 

And when you were in public, you could still show off expensive quality without everyone recognizing it. The lacquer of a sedan chair can be plain on the outside, but of the highest quality, and richly decorated on the inside, visible only to the passenger. Kimonos are the same, plain on the outside, but have the finest silk on the inside. The koshirae doesn't look like much from a distance, but the connoisseur recognizes the quality up close. And the blade, which you can't see anyway, will have been of excellent quality. That's actually typical Japanese understatement.

 

At least in this respect, and even if only internally, traders could put themselves on a par with the nobility or the samurai, who they had economic control over anyway. The latter enabled some to bear family names and swords.

 

For my daughter's host parents, it was the other way round. The ancestors gave up their samurai status in the late Edo period. They moved from Higo to Satsuma to make a better living as traders and farmers. When the Satsuma uprisings broke out, the great-grandfather of my daughter's boss, joined Saigo Takamori. Because of his origins and status as a trader, he was nicknamed "the squirrel of Higo". Unfortunately, the family no longer has any of their ancestors' swords.