When does a ware become fatal?

[George KN]

I was once again auction diving for Nihonto, and came across two blades, both with ware on the mune.

 

One of them I've actually bought (and will probs raise another thread about when I get my mitts on it), as it doesn't look too severe to me, the splits are very small and wire like, and generally I don't mind some flaws (the koshirae is also very nice). (Please correct me if you think this is a problem though):

 

 

 

However, the second blade, what I think is a tanto (the auction described it as a wakizashi), is much more beaten up. Again, I don't mind tired blades, but after seeing the severity of the kizu I felt it was a lost cause:

 

 

 

 

 

Am I right in thinking that about the tanto? Can a ware become so bad it is considered fatal?

 

 

 

[jeremy]

Usually fatal means that the structural integrity has been compromised,  ie unsuitable to he used as intended. But I don't see anything here that would severely compromise the integrity of the steel . If a ware is too close to the cutting edge , it could cause a crack or chip. I've used many blades over the decades with ware without problems.

Jeremy 

[George KN]

Thanks Jeremy - that's good to know - the splitting just seemed excessive for such a small blade, and I'm not sure whether it continued even further beyond the photo too. 

 

Out of curiosity, are ware immediately this bad after the smithing process, or is it something that gets worse with age and poor storage? And does the many wire-like ware in the first image indicate steel that has been folded more times than in the tanto?

[ROKUJURO]

George,

these MUNE WARE are just open welds from the forging process. Usually, they are esthetically unpleasant, but they don't get worse with time or use. 

Other KIZU like HAGIRE are much different.

[jeremy]

1 hour ago, Ghoul said:

Thanks Jeremy - that's good to know - the splitting just seemed excessive for such a small blade, and I'm not sure whether it continued even further beyond the photo too. 

 

Out of curiosity, are ware immediately this bad after the smithing process, or is it something that gets worse with age and poor storage? And does the many wire-like ware in the first image indicate steel that has been folded more times than in the tanto?

I've had brand new shinsakuto with ware in the shinogi ji , only been polished one time. Ware can become worse after repeated polishing, it's pretty much you and your luck.  But in the case of these two blades your presenting here, it shouldn't end up becoming fatal. Just an eyesore for some people.  

[George KN]

Thanks for the replies, always good learning more - and just for clarity I should add it wasn't the only thing wrong with the tanto:

 

 

The ware just happened to be the final straw that made me think even if I did rewrap the tsuka and get the blade polished, it would still not be a great example. I am trying very hard to learn from past mistakes and not buy things with issues that need addressing...

 

This is the one I did go for though: