Tohagi Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 (edited) On 7/25/2024 at 11:38 PM, Bruce Pennington said: Nice, and the whole sword looks to be quite nice as well! Hello, and thanks Bruce... Here is a topic about a very unusual Tsuba for me. First time I see such a massive heavy iron tsuba : The thickness of the mimi is almost 1 cm (exactly 9.4mm). The main Kamon is Tachibana (kuse), the copper is added recently... What do you think about it ? is it for nagamaki naoshi or other kind of blade? Did you saw this before? Edited July 30 by Tohagi 4 2 1 Quote
Curran Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 That is certainly different. I've been around tosogu for a few decades, and don't remember a similar one. I don't know that I can shed much info on this one. My subconscious tells me Kyushu and possibly Satsuma, though I sure as heck cannot articulately explain why. Take that as a semi-educated opinion, but still kinda a shot in the dark. 2 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 Eric, I haven't seen this design before, but I don't follow tsuba as a collector. You are sure to get some expert opinions on this forum, though. I would say the circled plant in the center is a family mon (crest). I suspect the other surrounding images have some meaning, but the other guys will have to chime in for that, too. Very interesting tsuba. Quote
Tohagi Posted July 30 Author Report Posted July 30 Thank you, Yes it's Tachibana(kuse) family crest. It's a cort (curt?) high ranck family, not samourai... and quite enemis/politics oponents of the fujiwara's. Best regards, Éric 3 Quote
kissakai Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 I looked for the widest tsuba in my book and it is Myochin = 7.9mm No where near yours but may be of interest 5 Quote
Tohagi Posted July 30 Author Report Posted July 30 Very close work on the ring ! No higo zogan in this one... Best, Éric VD Quote
Tohagi Posted July 31 Author Report Posted July 31 (edited) Could my Tsuba be Ono School ? They are known to make heavy and thick iron sukashi tsubas... Here another thick iron Tsuba I found on line (7.2mm). At least, this Tsuba can be used as an anchor ! https://japaneseswor...n-tsuba-with-anchor/ Edited July 31 by Tohagi 3 1 Quote
OceanoNox Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 It almost looks like a buckle or a clasp for capes and coats. 1 Quote
Toryu2020 Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 I would say it is not Ono since they were an Owari group so they didn't do pieces as detailed as yours - simple Owari and Yagyu designs. The "anchor" I believe is a rice bail hook and not an anchor... -t 1 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 1 Author Report Posted August 1 Thank you for your very instructive answer, do you have a guess on this unusual work? I realy don't have a clue... Best regards, Éric VEGAS DANGLA Quote
Toryu2020 Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 Eric - if you are asking me, I have to say I do not know who might have made these though my impression is that it is later work, say 1800's... -t 1 Quote
Robert S Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 At a guess all of these come from one or more craftspeople that were experimenting with casting. Getting those cylindrical shapes is entirely natural in casting, but a lot of work using other techniques. That aligns with the idea that these are later work. Robert S 2 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 1 Author Report Posted August 1 Strange... I didn't knew that it was possible to cast (magnetic) iron tsuba. In this one there is no cast mark, flaw or inclusion... Instead, there is regular file marks inside the ring... Well, you certainly know better,that sounds a bad news. Late 1800 cast iron tsuba so... Best regards, Éric VD Quote
Geraint Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 Dear Eric. For what it's worth I think the idea that this tsuba is cast is a misleading suggestion. There is nothing to suggest this. All the best. Quote
Tohagi Posted August 1 Author Report Posted August 1 Dear Geraint, Thank you, it's a relieve ! I was quite desapointed, I realy like this strange tsuba. Best, Éric VD Quote
Soshin Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 On 7/30/2024 at 12:21 PM, Curran said: That is certainly different. I've been around tosogu for a few decades, and don't remember a similar one. I don't know that I can shed much info on this one. My subconscious tells me Kyushu and possibly Satsuma, though I sure as heck cannot articulately explain why. Take that as a semi-educated opinion, but still kinda a shot in the dark. The thickness of the plate reminds me of Satsuma School but the overall size of the the tsuba is I think a bit too large for a Satsuma School tsuba. The Ono School has tsuba I have seen all have a thick robust plate and openwork like this tuba but would not have the soft metal inlay decorations like this tsuba has. All the Ono tsuba I have owned and examined showed strong well defined iron bones (tekkotsu 鉄骨) along the rim or even sometimes on the surface of the tsuba. I have seen nice robust signed Myochin School tsuba with later decorations done to the plate. @Tohagi Eric VD I hope you find this information helpful to your tsuba. 1 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 2 Author Report Posted August 2 Dear David, Thank you so much, this is helping a lot . It seems that Myochin could be a solid clue, it was Kissakai first impression too. The nunome zogan work could be a later work, even if the Tachibana Kamon should have been plated from the begining IMO.... The overall size is 7,8 /7,9 cm it's still à big tsuba, I confirm no tekkotsu like the one you can see in Akasaka's, just the iron normal deformation in curving the ring (upper inside). Wish you the best, Éric VD 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 13 hours ago, Robert S said: but a lot of work using other techniques. You could say that about every iron tsuba, thankfully the Japanese were not put off by a lot of work….indeed they took great pride in it. Is there anything actually visible that leads you to believe it is cast? Quote
Steves87 Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 There are quite a lot of thick guards out there, this one is not as thick as the example you have, but it is able to stand upright on the face of the mimi. I believe this represents a Mon, but I couldn't tell you which one, off the top of my head. 4 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 2 Author Report Posted August 2 Very, very intersting and nicely done Tsuba ! Do you know what school is it ? Best, Éric Quote
Robert S Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 Just to follow up on the casting question, I would not regard an early cast tsuba as being less worthy or valuable. In fact, from a historical point of view I would regard early casting experiments as being historically important. I may be wrong on this being cast, but as I said, this form is certainly suggestive of it. I would expect filing on a cast tsuba of any quality, to remove the casting marks. Quote
Brian Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 Nothing suggests cast to me here. Perfectly legit tsuba imo. 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 9 hours ago, Steves87 said: able to stand upright on the face of the mimi. Well balanced - [more than can be said for me! ] 1 2 Quote
Soshin Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 On 8/2/2024 at 3:41 AM, Tohagi said: The overall size is 7,8 /7,9 cm it's still à big tsuba, I confirm no tekkotsu like the one you can see in Akasaka's, just the iron normal deformation in curving the ring (upper inside). The iron bones (tekkotsu 鉄骨) along the rim or surface of Ono and other Owari Province tsuba schools and groups are distinctly different than the ones your typical encounter with tsuba of the Akasaka School. The iron bones of Ono School are typically larger granular and the iron bones of Aksasaka School on more linear in overall shape. I think I would need to show in-hand what I am talking about to be as clear as possible. Being in France please check out the NBTHK-EB meetings when you get a chance. 1 Quote
Kantaro Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 It makes me think about the Higo school. Kind regards. https://www.giquello...3-1868-nagamaru-gata 6 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 5 Author Report Posted August 5 23 hours ago, Soshin said: The iron bones (tekkotsu 鉄骨) along the rim or surface of Ono and other Owari Province tsuba schools and groups are distinctly different than the ones your typical encounter with tsuba of the Akasaka School. The iron bones of Ono School are typically larger granular and the iron bones of Aksasaka School on more linear in overall shape. I think I would need to show in-hand what I am talking about to be as clear as possible. Being in France please check out the NBTHK-EB meetings when you get a chance. I'll surely do, thank you. Best regards, Éric VD 1 Quote
zanilu Posted August 5 Report Posted August 5 My NBTHK papered Ono tsuba. Dimensions 71.3 mm x 71.0 mm, thickness at seppa-dai 4.5 mm, at mimi 7.5 mm. Regards Luca 4 Quote
Tohagi Posted August 5 Author Report Posted August 5 A very close shape, color and texture. 7,5 at the mimi is a lot considering this is a little smaller. Thank you for searching ! Best regards, Éric VD Quote
ROKUJURO Posted August 5 Report Posted August 5 On 8/4/2024 at 2:02 PM, Kantaro said: It makes me think about the Higo school. Not HIGO, but HEIANJO style. 3 Quote
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