Katana find

[Hs132]

Greetings, I was handed this sword by a co worker that knew I collected German and Japanese War items yesterday. It is missing the scabbard and it has never been taken apart. It was part of a friends relatives estate, US Marine Vet. from the PTO. The blade looked quite worn, superficial old file marks and it didnt look to promising. The next day I was able to remove the tsuka and to say I was stunned was an understatement. It measures 25" in lenght, any and all comments, translation, appreciated. Best, Bill Bourque

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[John A Stuart]

I see what looks like 小川重良 Ozawa Shigeyoshi so far. John

[John A Stuart]

I am afraid I see nothing convincing about this sword. Very strange looking all around. Can't see anything as regards the blade. Too rusty. I really haven't seen anything like this before. John

[Gunome]

Hi,

 

Looks like a polish work started on this blade and stoped before rusted...very strange :?

 

Sébastien

[IanB]

Bill, Obviously a much neglected blade. Without bothering to get out my dictionaries (Cos she has told me I have to lay a carpet), what I am seeing is a gold inlaid tameshigiri or cutting test. Looks like two bodies were cut.

Ian Bottomley

[John A Stuart]

Ian is correct,

二ノ胴 ni no do, actually a straight cut through the two breasts in tameshigiri. Called wakige by the Yamada family. Formerly wakige was through both armpits. John

[sencho]

I see what looks like 小川重良 Ozawa Shigeyoshi so far. John

 

John,

 

小川 "Ogawa"... "little river" .... That is my in-laws family name in Japan.....

 

小沢　is Ozawa.....

 

Cheers

[John A Stuart]

Could be skipper, they are both family names. Which it is, I don't know. Do your inlaws write it this way. 小川 or there are others, like 尾川, 小側, 苧川, 小河 etc. John

[Hs132]

Hello, thank you for your expert assistance. Again I am shocked. Im trying to get more info about the family, storage and Vet. history. Best, Bill

[sencho]

Could be skipper, they are both family names. Which it is, I don't know. Do your inlaws write it this way. 小川 or there are others, like 尾川, 小側, 苧川, 小河 etc. John

 

Hi John,

 

Yep same way... 小川... literally 'small river'　that is the most common kanji combination for the Ogawa last name

 

Ogawa with the Kanji....　緒川 ... is second most common..... but not sure what the first Kanji really means in this context and combination... on it's own 緒 I think it means 'link together'.....

 

The others, I think are rare, and probably more used for place names rather than surnames.

 

Cheers

[Lee Bray]

I could very well be wrong but to me the tameshimei looks fake.

It looks very crudely done and scratchy compared to the cutting tests I've seen.

[John A Stuart]

A conversation I had a while back with Moriyama san brought up this piece of history. That is that a lot of tameshigirimei are incised to enhance the desirability of the sword and are in fact not a reliable test. I am not saying this is the case here, but, in those cases the person adding this feature may not be of the highest calibre to do that work. I suspect a more experienced person may not put something they knew to be spurious on a sword. They usually have an unknown person as a tester. John

[Grey Doffin]

The cutting test looks a bit wrong to my eyes also. There is a way to tell if the test was done long ago or yesterday. When a gold inlay is done the gold is finished off flush with the surface of the nakago. Since steel oxidizes and gold doesn't, over time the surface of the nakago around the inlay will expand ever so slightly while the gold will retain its original surface. If the inlay was done during the Edo period, you should be able to feel the different heights of the gold and steel. If the inlay was done recently there will be no difference.

Grey

[Ted Tenold]

Guido compiled a list of testers here:

 

http://www.una.edu/faculty/takeuchi/DrT ... ameshi.htm

 

There is an Ogawa Shigeharu, but not Shigeyoshi. So perhaps this particular tester is not on his list, but there was at least one "Ogawa" performing tests. Perhaps another generation or related tester since the "Shige" is consistant.

 

Like other mei, Saidan-mei need to be authenticated too, so shinsa would be necessary. I will say that this one looks rather crude, but I remember seeing a very crude looking one that was genuine too. At the moment, I can't remember where I saw it, but it was surprising to me that it was shoshin by comparison to others rendered in more pleasing form.

 

Remain the sceptical optomist.

[John A Stuart]

I have a sword made by Yasumichi that has a kintameshigirimei 'yotsu do setsudan' maybe by Shigesato Masayuki that has a similarity although a little more refined. I can't attest to its authenticity. John

[sanjuro]

If I may presume to correct the statements above, and if I am in turn mistaken I shall apologise beforehand.

Ni no Do (Hachimaime) does not actually denote two bodies it denotes a position across one body roughly at the base of the sternum which is one degree (about three inches) above ichi no do.

I'm using a reference of the Yamada family published in Sword and Same' by Joly and Hogitaro.

Page123. The cut across the armpits referred to, is actually called Karigane or Wakige

[Hs132]

The cutting test looks a bit wrong to my eyes also. There is a way to tell if the test was done long ago or yesterday. When a gold inlay is done the gold is finished off flush with the surface of the nakago. Since steel oxidizes and gold doesn't, over time the surface of the nakago around the inlay will expand ever so slightly while the gold will retain its original surface. If the inlay was done during the Edo period, you should be able to feel the different heights of the gold and steel. If the inlay was done recently there will be no difference.

Grey

Hello, even with the lightest of touch I feel no difference in heights, its very smooth. Bill

[John A Stuart]

Has anyone figured out what the other kanji mean. I tried this bit, ? ? 長式 ? 持之 Is it about a ceremony before being forged?

 

Hello sanjuro, My previous post; "二ノ胴 ni no do, actually a straight cut through the two breasts in tameshigiri. Called wakige by the Yamada family. Formerly wakige was through both armpits. John"

 

The names were changed by the Yamada family in the Kansei era. Ni no do was changed to wakige. What was formerly wakige 脇毛 was changed to karigane 雁金. For example the ichi no do 一ノ胴 you mentioned was changed to chiwari 乳割. John

[Guido]

I think the discussion about the different names for cutting techniques is moot in this case, because the Saidanmei says 二ツ胴 (futatsu-dô), not 二ノ胴 (ni no dô) - thus stating that two bodies were cut.

 

分石 (bunseki?) doesn't make sense to me, but might be the name the sword was given. The last part of the Zôgan-mei looks like 斉X長式所持之, a Shoji-mei (i.e. stating the owner of the sword).

 

As Ted said, at this point it's very hard to be sure if the Kinzôgan-mei is genuine or not, but to me it doesn't look very convincing.

[John A Stuart]

Thanks Guido, those two little strokes change everything. John

[Grey Doffin]

Hello, even with the lightest of touch I feel no difference in heights, its very smooth. Bill

Which tells us that the cutting test results were added to the blade recently. I think we have ample evidence that the test is a fake, added to increase the sword's value.

Grey