Kaneyoshi Part 2

[elitemilitaria]

Hi again,

 

I am not sure why the forum locked the first part of this discussion as Yozu showa22 wanted to join this forum to admit evidence, the forum for some unknown reason never gave him the opportunity. I am not sure if he managed to join the forum to submit his evidence under a new topic which he so desperately wanted to do.

 

From the private e-mail that I received this morning, and I hope that Yozu does not mind if I enter them into this forum, it sounds like he posted a message on this forum, however I cannot find it.

 

Hello everybody, This is show22, I sold this Kaneyoshi at the previous auction. I guarantee This Kaneyoshi is made by Kawai Yoshifumi signed Kaneyoshi 兼義. The temper shows suguha temper with ko-nie deki active above the temper and forging grain is clearly visible which are evidence of traditional hand forged and water temper blde. I don`t think it is gimei signature also not necessary to make fake signature of second seat tittled smith.

Regards, Yuzo

 

 

Yuzo,

Thank you for the input. Please know that I meant no disrespect and gave only my opinion on the mei. Truthfully, I thought the sword seemed of a better quality than what I would have expected from Yoshifumi, so I thought it was a mei applied attempting to copy an earlier smith. In my post I suggested that the buyer contact you for more information, as I respect your opinion above that of my own.

 

Again, please accept my apologies and know that I meant no disrespect.

 

 

 

I personally think that Yuzo is more qualified than most on this forum and deserves the highest respect and I really hope that he joins this forum as he would be a great asset.

 

Regards

Elite Militaria Pty. Ltd.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi again,

 

I am not sure why the forum locked the first part of this discussion as Yozu showa22 wanted to join this forum to admit evidence, the forum for some unknown reason never gave him the opportunity. I am not sure if he managed to join the forum to submit his evidence under a new topic which he so desperately wanted to do.

 

From the private e-mail that I received this morning, and I hope that Yozu does not mind if I enter them into this forum, it sounds like he posted a message on this forum, however I cannot find it.

 

...omissis...

 

Again, please accept my apologies and know that I meant no disrespect.

 

 

 

Mr. X, wouldn't be enough to reply to O-Sensei-Sama Yuzo's E-mail to apologize ?

 

BTW

 

I thought the sword seemed of a better quality than what I would have expected from Yoshifumi, so I thought it was a mei applied attempting to copy an earlier smith..

 

... doesn't equal to say you supposed it was Gimei ?

[showa22]

Hello,

I have been tring to send a mail to this forum but didn`t work out. But I will try again.

This Kaneyoshi signature is genuine and taraditional hand forged blade. The signature are not same

all the time. I see very poor kanji writing kanji signature on the swords, because they didn`t go to school, are not educated how to write their own name that is very common at that time in Japan.

The sword book you have is not perfect book and still we need to study more.

Regards,

Yuzo

[John A Stuart]

Hi Yuzo san, I never originally commented on the signature of this sword, other than mentioning to Elite Militaria Pty. that it is different in how it was made and that it was why there was the conversation about it. That is a very interesting fact about the smith being a poor calligrapher. I must say swords made in this era frequently are hard to read and a lot are nakarishimei. Thank you and welcome. John

[Stephen]

Yuzo

 

Welcome to the board, I'm very glad that you have taken time to give of your understanding of Nihonto.

 

Please forgive over zealous students as they want to help but do not understand the consequences of shouting out Gimei/Fake. As has been stated more than a few Kaneyoshi for wartime smiths. I have seen the other Kaneyoshi papered to 75 points and does great work.

I always look to your auction as there are many good deals for gendaito which I enjoy. I believe I have even talked to you at SF show back when I was going to them ten years ago. Please feel free to give your take on anything posted here. Looking forward to your input.

[showa22]

Hello John,

I think this sign is done by himself in young days or by younger brother. I`m sure this kind of writing is not done by meikirishi or kazuuchimei since the mei form is very artistic writing.

Regards,

Yuzo

[elitemilitaria]

Hi again,

 

Very sorry about the total confusion about this message below, as it was not sent or written by us Elitemilitaria, it was a private e-mail reply to Yuzo from a member of this forum who apologized for the comments that he made on this forum.

 

Yuzo,

Thank you for the input. Please know that I meant no disrespect and gave only my opinion on the mei. Truthfully, I thought the sword seemed of a better quality than what I would have expected from Yoshifumi, so I thought it was a mei applied attempting to copy an earlier smith. In my post I suggested that the buyer contact you for more information, as I respect your opinion above that of my own.

 

 

In conclusion I would just like to say that I am so very happy that Yuzo is now part of this forum, he truly has a great wealth of knowledge.

 

I will no longer enter any comments on this subject, I leave it now to the members of this forum.

 

My sincere apologies to the forum, we at Elitemilitaria pride ourselves on making 100% sure that we only sell 100% original Japanese Swords, we stand by any sword that we sell and offer a life time money back guarantee.

[loiner1965]

welcome aboard yuzo san....your knowledge and experience on nihonto can provide us beginners valuable learning

[showa22]

Hello Elite Militalia Pty,

I still don`t understand why you have requested refund to paypal and has opend dispute for the payment on Nov.9th which has been past over one month without send back the purchse.

There is no problem I will refund in full if you are not satisfied with it , it has 3 day inspection periods. That is not fair transaction, the payment has been hold by paypal. Plase return the sword or close thedispute.

Regards,

Yuzo

[SwordGuyJoe]

Wow,

Well I will take the comments to heart regarding telling people that my opinions are opinions - regardless of whether that needs to be said or not. Now with me claiming my portion of the 'blame' here, allow me the opportunity to retort, as Elite Militaria has had the floor and not held back on putting me in my place.

 

Did I say I was an expert? No, so don't say that I did.

Did I suggest Mark contact Showa22 for more information? Yes, so don't imply that I said he should return it.

Did I say that the sword was a fake? No, I simply made a comment on the mei - if he interpreted that as me saying that it was 'fake', that is not my responsibility.

Did I ever say that the company/people who sold the sword to him are bad people/not to be trusted? No, furthermore, for all I know the sale said that the blade was in question - so do not imply that I did.

Did Mark say that you had a 100% authenticity guarantee? No and if he did, I would have suggested to submit to shinsa.

 

Overall Elite Militaria, I understand your frustration, as I have had people respectfully back out of deals in the past too. I too applaud your return policy, but I stand by that if you do have a guarantee, have Mark submit to shinsa, pay the fees or agree to pay if the sword does not pass and let the true experts judge the blade. I have bought swords that I have questioned under that agreement in the past and it protects both parties.

 

I am truly sorry for the problems that this string has caused the board and Yuzo (Showa22) and I meant absolutely no disrespect to any of the involved parties. I feel that I have said my piece on the subject and will now gracefully bow out.

[showa22]

Hello Everybody, I have been studying the Japanese sword for over 40 years also dealing

them. I sold this Kaneyoshi 330374391661, I have descrived which I seen on the sword and there is no descived my opinion. "The signature is signed" means descrived only and not saying "signed by".

Any way, It is very common there are many fake signature on the old swords specialy copied

high grade sword smith. But I have never seen fake signature of low grade of showato,

no reason to to fake it and this Kaneyoshi is not fake signature. I have seen many fake name high grade gendaito smith name swords, Takahashi Naganobu, Miyairi Akihira, Shibata Ka, Gassan Sadagazu　etc selling on ebay. They are all fake signature on shinsakuto which was made recently.

Regards,

Yuzo

[Ted Tenold]

A word from the Moderator....

 

I'm going to keep this thread open for the time being though I still emphatically believe this is a matter between the buyer and seller. Any hint of deviation from a civilized and courteous discussion and I'll lock the thread again and will disallow any further commentary on the subject. However, I will not allow it to continue to monotony. The issues here still remain between buyer(s) and seller(s) and must be resolve between them outside this venue. The opinions expressed here remain just that; opinons, favorable or unfavorable, and at the end of the day, are discussion between individuals that took place after the transaction.

 

@ Elite Militaria; As a member of the forum it is mandatory to sign a real name to your posts. You can keep the company name as your handle and alter your post signature to Dan K. in your profile section.

 

@Yuzo-san; Welcome to the forum. Thank you for providing us with more information regarding this sword.

 

@ Everyone; As Yuzo-san pointed out, gimei in lower ranked smiths is pretty rare. Many of the makers from this period have little if any recorded mei and work examples. Many recordings are not yet available in literature other than Japanese. However, we must always be on guard. Ask questions, do your research, and gain knowledge before buying anything. If you do business with reputable and honest dealers, they will help you. They have a responsibility to stand behind their own return policies and should if they wish to maintain their reputation. However, *buyers* also have a responsiblity to act in accordance with good business practices. An honorable refund policy doesn't mean it should be used at random as a protective measure against buyer's remorse, poor foresight, or a change of heart. The dealer's livelihood, reputation, and their employees and families also have dependance on transactions. Sell, and Buy, responsibly.

 

As a suggestion; Perhaps instead of a return for refund, the buyer and seller would entertain a credit toward some other item, now or in the future, less shipping and associated return fees, with the understanding that an alternative item would be final, as is, and conclude the matter.

[loiner1965]

well said ted......they is at least one good thing that has come out of this thread....i now can put a face so to speak to a potential seller.....i would not hesitate in buying any item from showa22 as this thread as shown me he is a trustworthy and caring seller