Kamakura Period Kodachi with Sayagaki by Hon'ami Nishu

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 9:17 AM, DoTanuki yokai said:

Ubu with 50cm nagasa and kamakura does not fit together for me. 
 

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Isn't there a Ko-Bizen Kageyasu kodachi out there at 50 cm?

[DoTanuki yokai]

The first one would be what I expect. Is the small one also Shinogi Zukuri ? 
 

I’m not saying I don’t believe it but I would like to see a picture if possible.

I just have never seen one and only know them from books. 

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 4:10 PM, DoTanuki yokai said:

The first one would be what I expect. Is the small one also Shinogi Zukuri ? 
 

I’m not saying I don’t believe it but I would like to see a picture if possible.

I just have never seen one and only know them from books. 

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Here's an oshigata of the sword.

 

1 shaku, 6 sun, 6 bu, 5 rin, so same length as my sword.

 

[Gakusee]

  On 7/22/2024 at 3:57 PM, Zoglet said:

 

So, with the belief that the sword is mid to late Muromachi, would the sword still even be a kodachi, or something else? Furthermore, if it's no issue, do you have any photos of these kodachi? Just would like some references for laterpurchases, if okay. Thank you so much for your wisdom!

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We are getting into hypotheses here. We do not know when the sword could be dated to as we have not inspected it and analysed it. 
 

No, I am not sharing my swords here….

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 4:32 PM, Gakusee said:

We are getting into hypotheses here. We do not know when the sword could be dated to as we have not inspected it and analysed it. 
 

No, I am not sharing my swords here….

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I getcha. Thanks anyway.

[Franco]

  On 7/22/2024 at 4:13 PM, Zoglet said:

Here's an oshigata of the sword.

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The shape of this oshigata sword has significant differences to my eye. So, while lengths may be similar, time frames of manufacture are not. 

One reason lengths may be similar is that later swords were attempting to copy earlier examples.

[Scogg]

For a side-by-side comparison:
 

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 5:02 PM, GeorgeLuucas said:

For a side-by-side comparison:
 

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Thank you so much for the information.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I struggle in understanding kodachi, as to me they are a peculiar type of swords. So far I have documented 158 kodachi from late Heian - early Muromachi periods. There is a lot of variety in them in shape and size. Some are short and fairly wide while some are long and narrow, and there will be an item for most of the possible varieties in between. I saw several kodachi this summer in Japan, including the Rai Kunitoshi kodachi that is one of the national treasures of Futarasan-jinja. I just don't seem to grasp these where as I do love their opposite, ōdachi.

 

For Norimune I currently have documented only 8 signed tachi by him. Only 1 of them is in private ownership, others are in various museums, shrines etc. in Japan.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 5:11 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

I struggle in understanding kodachi, as to me they are a peculiar type of swords. So far I have documented 158 kodachi from late Heian - early Muromachi periods. There is a lot of variety in them in shape and size. Some are short and fairly wide while some are long and narrow, and there will be an item for most of the possible varieties in between. I saw several kodachi this summer in Japan, including the Rai Kunitoshi kodachi that is one of the national treasures of Futarasan-jinja. I just don't seem to grasp these where as I do love their opposite, ōdachi.

 

For Norimune I currently have documented only 8 signed tachi by him. Only 1 of them is in private ownership, others are in various museums, shrines etc. in Japan.

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I know, right? Kodachi are an interesting beast, but hey, we win some, we lose some. Still a good graduation gift from Dad. Will send it to shinsa when I can.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Very nice gift and it is good to enjoy and research it.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 5:31 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

Very nice gift and it is good to enjoy and research it.

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That's what I was thinking. Plus, I'm young, so, lots of time to build a fine collection!

For now, there are Norimunes from 1394 to 1555 from Bizen for Muromachi period, so I'll treat it as one of them.

[Rivkin]

Very nice gift, very educational, and I am certain it was treasured by people for a long time. I don't think its a reshaped regular wakizashi, and if its purposefully made to appear as Norimune, its a rare item. There is plenty to study there. By comparison buying for the same amount of money a blade with modern papers would leave one with an average blade with all the research already prepared.

 

There is a beaty and fun in buying unpapered blades, but its a hard and at time expensive sport.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 7:21 PM, Rivkin said:

Very nice gift, very educational, and I am certain it was treasured by people for a long time. I don't think its a reshaped regular wakizashi, and if its purposefully made to appear as Norimune, its a rare item. There is plenty to study there. By comparison buying for the same amount of money a blade with modern papers would leave one with an average blade with all the research already prepared.

 

There is a beaty and fun in buying unpapered blades, but its a hard and at time expensive sport.

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You're right. Still a beautiful kodachi, and as I learn more about them, just means more kodachi to own. Might stick to Yamashiro Rai school and it's splinters papered though for now, just because I know more about them.

[Jacques]

  On 7/22/2024 at 4:13 PM, Zoglet said:

 

Here's an oshigata of the sword.

 

1 shaku, 6 sun, 6 bu, 5 rin, so same length as my sword.

 

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If i'm not wrong the number of mekugi ana doesn't match ...

[Zoglet]

  On 7/22/2024 at 8:35 PM, Jacques D. said:

If i'm not wrong the number of mekugi ana doesn't match ...

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These are two different swords. That one is a Ko-Bizen Kageyasu I was using to state that kodachi did have a 1 shaku, 6 sun size during the Kamakura period.

[Jacques]

Ah, ok, My mistake.

[Jacques]

There are several things that bother me: the sugata doesn't match the era, the kissaki is too long, the mei is oddly placed and the characters are too large. Where was this sword purchased? In Japan?

[Tohagi]

Hi, my father never gave me such a gift!

It would be a fantastic Tale if it could be Ichimonji Norimune...

I can't tell from the meï, but the place seems wrong on the nakago (I can be myself wrong) it is under the mekugi ana and not enough on the mune side...

Hope it is another good Norimune.

 

Best regards, 

 

Éric VD

[Franco]

Fyi, https://nihonto.com/the-ichimonji-school-一文字派/

[Zoglet]

  On 7/23/2024 at 2:21 PM, Jacques D. said:

There are several things that bother me: the sugata doesn't match the era, the kissaki is too long, the mei is oddly placed and the characters are too large. Where was this sword purchased? In Japan?

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Bought in Hiroshima, Japan.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/23/2024 at 3:16 PM, Tohagi said:

Hi, my father never gave me such a gift!

It would be a fantastic Tale if it could be Ichimonji Norimune...

I can't tell from the meï, but the place seems wrong on the nakago (I can be myself wrong) it is under the mekugi ana and not enough on the mune side...

Hope it is another good Norimune.

 

Best regards, 

 

Éric VD

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I'm personally in the belief after working with this board and another board that the sword might be from the Bizen Norimunes of the Oei to Bunmei eras.

[Jacques]

  Quote

Bought in Hiroshima, Japan.

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Without NBTHK papers = huge red flag

[Gakusee]

  On 7/23/2024 at 5:17 PM, Zoglet said:

 

I'm personally in the belief after working with this board and another board that the sword might be from the Bizen Norimunes of the Oei to Bunmei eras.

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….however, did he not sign with an Osafune mei..rather than the nijimei evident here…..

 

->Norimine (則宗), Ōei (応永, 1394-1428), Bizen – “Bizen no Kuni Osafune-jū Norimune” (備前国長船住則宗) signature

 

Listen, nothing wrong with having a nice gimei blade that you can live with. Especially if a gift from your father. Mine, as much as I loved him and vice versa, would never have made me such a present and in fact was against “weapons” and such “fads” and collectible “varieties” - perhaps due to his very modest character and humble upbringing. 

[Zoglet]

  On 7/23/2024 at 6:22 PM, Gakusee said:

 

….however, did he not sign with an Osafune mei..rather than the nijimei evident here…..

 

->Norimine (則宗), Ōei (応永, 1394-1428), Bizen – “Bizen no Kuni Osafune-jū Norimune” (備前国長船住則宗) signature

 

Listen, nothing wrong with having a nice gimei blade that you can live with. Especially if a gift from your father. Mine, as much as I loved him and vice versa, would never have made me such a present and in fact was against “weapons” and such “fads” and collectible “varieties” - perhaps due to his very modest character and humble upbringing. 

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Fair point. However, the Bunmei Norimune signed both with an Osafune mei and a nijimei signature. It may very well be gimei, but until shinsa confirms, I'm just trying to learn more where I can. That way I can better understand and appreciate the gift my father gave me.

[Rivkin]

  On 7/23/2024 at 5:17 PM, Zoglet said:

 

I'm personally in the belief after working with this board and another board that the sword might be from the Bizen Norimunes of the Oei to Bunmei eras.

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Nope.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/23/2024 at 7:08 PM, Rivkin said:

 

Nope.

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Noted.

[Zoglet]

What puts away, however, the Bunmei Period? That falls within the late Muromachi period (1469), with a Norimune that had a nijimei signature, and the Bizen features of the blade?

[Gakusee]

  On 7/23/2024 at 7:19 PM, Zoglet said:

What puts away, however, the Bunmei Period? That falls within the late Muromachi period (1469), with a Norimune that had a nijimei signature, and the Bizen features of the blade?

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Then, please provide examples of the nijimei Muromachi Norimune and we can explore. 
 

However, the hamon and other features of the kodachi do not point in that direction.

[Zoglet]

  On 7/24/2024 at 4:43 PM, Gakusee said:

 

Then, please provide examples of the nijimei Muromachi Norimune and we can explore. 
 

However, the hamon and other features of the kodachi do not point in that direction.

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The file on the Nihontoclub website features a Norimune during the Bunmei period with both an Osafune signature and a nijimei signature which was recorded on page 753 of the Nihonto Meikan.